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Original poster

A little concerned about ds1's teacher...long!

164 replies

marthamoo · 30/09/2005 10:45

Now I know teachers are only human and they do make mistakes. Not a problem. But ds1 has just gone into Year 4 - what are we now, 4 weeks into term?

So far:

He came home with the word "traditionary" as one of his spellings. Now it is a word (I didn't think it was, I've never heard it used, but I looked it up) but I was fairly sure it was a mistake. I said he had probably copied it down wrongly and it was likely to be traditional or traditionally.

I went to parent's evening (just one where the teachers tell you what kind of thing they will be doing over the academic year). One of the parents asked the teacher about the word "traditionary" - at which point about 8 others piped up and queried it too. Mrs X looked completely blank - and said "well, do you have a dictionary at home?" It was fairly obvious that was what she had written on the board - and she couldn't see why we were querying it.

Anyway - that's not so bad. It did turn out to be traditionally in the test, btw.

So on to numeracy. I posted one of the questions of ds1's maths sheet which he had trouble with last week (which is why I asked for help finding the thread last night and QofQ kindly found it for me). The question was

4 = [ ] - 10

Ds thought it was 6 (reading it backwards) and I said it was 14. I wanted to check though 'cos I'm crap at maths Anyway I was right.
Ds1 came home yesterday and said "hey, Mum - I was right about that sum - it was 6. You made me put the wrong answer!" ???? Do they do maths differently these days? Incidentally, I didn't just 'tell' him the right answer - I explained why that was the right answer.

He had another maths sheet this week. One of the things was writing the time on a clock face. This sheet he brought back - he got it right, it's been marked wrong.

I don't know whether to go in and query all this, or whether to let it go. I feel a bit cross about it - you learn from your mistakes, but you learn from what you get right too, don't you? I mean, it's only 3 little things but - 3 in 4 weeks? Plus, from an aggrieved mother PofV, it is galling to be told that she must be right because she is a teacher - implication being that I know nothing

Shall I just let it go?

OP posts:
Original poster
marthamoo · 03/10/2005 15:50

groat, no this was a maths sheet and I saw it in black and white so I'm sure of the question.

Toadytref, wish I had a maths degree from Cambridge - then I could have been more forceful.

OP posts:
QueenOfQuotes · 03/10/2005 15:50

I'd be tempted to take it up with the head teacher - as her (or him) what he thinks the answer should be - and then explain what the teacher has said.

Seriously - I'd be quite concerned if a teacher was teaching my 7yr old to do sums backwards.

I doubt very much that it should have been -4= - unless the curiculum has changed a lot since I was at school, I'm sure I wasn't doing sums with negative numbers at that age!

PollyLogos · 03/10/2005 15:50

The pivot explanation that she gave you would be fine if she had written

10-6=14-10

Original poster
marthamoo · 03/10/2005 15:51

Feel like a wimp for not being more forceful - well, I said I was sure I was right but I wasn't argumentative, iykwim.

OP posts:
groat · 03/10/2005 15:51

you don't need a maths degree then just some common sense and she obv hasn't got any!!!

motherinferior · 03/10/2005 15:51

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Says woman who has already queried the use of apostrophes in the letter they send home to parents

Original poster
marthamoo · 03/10/2005 15:52

I'm both reassured and saddened that it's not just ds1's school that sends home letters with grammar and punctuation mistakes in.

OP posts:
Janh · 03/10/2005 15:53

We've recently had a letter from the Grammar School using the word "excepted" instead of "accepted"

(Was from PE dept but even so)

katierocket · 03/10/2005 15:54

moo - that is really worrying isn't it. I am definitely no maths whizz but it just looked instantly wrong. Can you ask about it again along the lines of "look I'm sorry to be dim abotu this but feel it's important for me to understand for DS's sake etc" and actually get her to explain in which instances you are supposed to read equations from L-R and in which from R-L and how you're supposed to know!

katierocket · 03/10/2005 15:54

I think QoQ is right to suggest speakign to head, that is surely a basic mathematical skill.

vickitrickortreatmum · 03/10/2005 15:55

janh!

motherinferior · 03/10/2005 15:55

DP looked at me pointedly as I made this remark in a meeting. But if it hadn't been me it would have been the other journalist two chairs down, dammit.

PollyLogos · 03/10/2005 15:55

I'm with QoQ on this. I would be extremely worried about a teacher teaching this to my child. Definitely think you need to make some waves about this. It is so fundamentally basic that you go from Left to right that I wouldn't even feel guilty about possibly getting her into trouble. (normally I would not want to make a 'mistake' into an issue but......)

ToadyTref · 03/10/2005 15:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

katierocket · 03/10/2005 15:57

indeed pollylogos, let us know how you get on moo.

hunkerpumpkin · 03/10/2005 15:57

This teacher's a bloody idiot.

MrsMills · 03/10/2005 15:58

Sorry, but that's not an equation, that's just a sum backwards.

I am going to do some research for you.

QueenOfQuotes · 03/10/2005 15:58

my headmaster (who was also my english teacher) had the most appalling spelling and handwriting I've ever seen. He openenly admitted that when writing things he got spellings wrong - thankfully always picked up on our though .

Having said that he was the most amazing English teacher I ever had, he made it so exciting - even Philip Larkin was a hoot - and never had a child fail their Standard Graders, Highers or CSYS .

Original poster
marthamoo · 03/10/2005 16:00

I'm going to give her the chance to check on it - and see if she will redeem herself by admitting she was wrong. I got the feeling she was so sure she was right she may not even bother to check but I may be misjudging her. If she doesn't get back to me...oh I don't know. I hate the thought of going to the head about it, I've always been able to sort things out with the teacher directly before. Sounds like I complain all the time and, actually, I only have once before and the teacher in question told the head herself and he apologised to me later. I'm digressing now...

OP posts:
Mog · 03/10/2005 16:01

It's scary really that a teacher is getting this wrong and I think it has to be challenged - although I appreciate it is hard to find a diplomatic way to do it. Is she a young teacher? I ask because I thought all teachers now had to pass a basic test in maths and English before qualifying. It is a very fundamental maths rule and the children have to learn it properly or they are going to be confused. Equations are like the language of maths so she is teaching them the wrong words for things.
Do keep us informed of how you resolve this. It is indeed worrying.

MrsMills · 03/10/2005 16:02

I hae emailed a friend who is a professor in mathematics, his field of research is algebra.

What he says rules, O.K.?

QueenOfQuotes · 03/10/2005 16:02

martha - if she doesn't get back to you - I think it's important to speak to the head about it - primary maths is SOOOO important and if they learn it wrong now it can set them up for years of struggling. (I struggled a lot when I was in my teens as I'd had some cr*p teaching up to the age of 11).

tortoiseshell · 03/10/2005 16:03

No no no that's totally totally wrong. The minus refers to the 10. Hence you write -10. Think of it this way...+4 = +14 -10. The pivot thing would apply if you moved the -10 over to the other side - it would become +14, so +4 +10 = +14

tortoiseshell · 03/10/2005 16:04

Sorry, would become +10 when you moved it over...!

binkie · 03/10/2005 16:04

Well actually ... both sides, and both answers, may be right.

I'd always thought that subtraction, like division, has left-to-right order of computation as an essential. But, having done some research on this right now (because work is a bit slow) guess what, it's no more than a convention. And maths websites suggest that it is a good idea that teachers keep to left-to-right presentation because the computation seems to come more naturally then (and because it's how calculators work).

I still think that if MM's ds's teacher was wanting him to do "mirror image" or "counter-intuitive" maths she should have made that obvious. And actually she shouldn't, as it's really confusing.