Teacher v TA Maths Groups.

[RichJU]

Hi,

My DS (Yr 2) is struggling with his maths - he has had hearing issues and misses much of what gets described by the teacher.

When I asked him why he doesn't ask the teacher when unsure, he told me that after the inital "lecture" by the teacher his group are taught by the TA whilst the teacher goes with the other group (the confident maths kids).

The TA just draws rings round his wrong answers. Anecdotally I know that the teacher continues the teaching with her group using whiteboard etc to get the subject across, whilst my son's group are left to get on with it.

He's unhappy (tears last week), we're unhappy - what would you do?

My (teacher) sister finds it unethical that the TA and Teacher never swap groups. So do I but fear making his life difficult by raising it.

Would you advise getting a tutor to bridge the gap and say nothing or tackle this.

Radical idea the teacher teaches everyone and differentiates by questioning not by exclusion

I suppose by secondary it is not so easy to modify a task for the top kids merely by making the numbers bigger. But if the task is e.g. 'reading timetables' and your less able child can't even tell the time or add up, then explaining to them and the whole class how to find that the journey takes 1 hour 45 minutes is, like I said, a waste of their time and they could be doing something a bit more useful.

I know in Y7 we have the top kids learning completely different stuff to the lower sets, not merely doing extension questions.

They can do time duration using full hours from the o'clock then. Same concept, same strategy.

"teacher teaches everyone and differentiates by questioning not by exclusion"

That can work for English or History where the same topic can be accessed at many different levels, but maths is a different kettle of fish, especially as you go up the school.

Actually I would have thought if was easier in secondary as I assume most stream by ability so narrower ability spread than in primary classes.

Feenie, and they just sit and look bored when you talk about anything more difficult than that? And the bright kids get frustrated as you go over the easy stuff again?

It's commonplace in primary where a single class can span from a low level 2 to a high 5.

or you get a pleasant surprise when they understand something you thought they wouldn't understand

When I was a TA (worked as an HLTA in English prior to training) I normally had the strugglers. I would have the same group every lesson in one class, and would just be told the desired outcome and teach them however/whatever I felt best to achieve that. Now that I am a teacher this wouldn't necessarily be my MO.

Bright kids are easily challenged as described before. It's not a problem - we do it all the time!

Easy trap to fall into, Ninkynonker - but you are right. Those children become very reliant on adult support, and the teacher doesn't fully understand what they are capable of because she never works with them!

mrz, yes, it is easier in secondary, as we split the group into sets and get the lower groups to do different work.

Why should that approach not work in Primary? Why should all the kids be having to listen to the same maths lesson?

Because they all get something different out of it and all are extended.

Because in primary we don't have sink classes we expect all children to have the same opportunities and don't say it a complete waste of a less able child's time to make them sit, unable to access what is being taught, we ensure that everyone does access what is being taught.

"It's commonplace in primary where a single class can span from a low level 2 to a high 5."

Actually, that's my bottom set Y8 right there. I wish I had a TA with them who could take the weakest out for extra support every so often.

"we don't have sink classes"

We don't in secondary either. We have sets to ensure that everyone receives the most suitable maths teaching for their abilities. And later on, for their needs.

I have a class with ability from P4 to high level 3 and I wouldn't send the weakest out with a TA. They get extra support ... from me.

"I wish I had a TA with them who could take the weakest out for extra support every so often."

The op doesn't say every so often, she says all the time.

Then you aren't like some of the secondary schools around here noblegiraffe.

And mrz, your school with your children who are all able to access any work, is not like any of the primary schools around here.

"The other kids are left scattered about on separate tables with this TA supervising."

This sounds really crap. This isn't splitting the class into groups and having them work together on different things, or the weakest receiving extra support, this is abandoning half the class to their own devices.

Don't get a tutor, kick up a fuss.

It's your common or garden primary lesson in most schools - really!

Feenie, in Y7 we might have some of the brightest kids expanding double brackets in algebra. I cannot see how you can teach a lesson which will lead to the brightest being able to do this while still being a worthwhile and productive lesson for your kid who needs help to add up.

Easy - your less able children would work on simpler algebra at its most basic level ? + 5 = 12, using the inverse operation to find the answer (3c).

Perhaps you could ask to observe a lesson in your local primary? We've fulfilled this request for more than one local high school, wanting help with those same strategies.

I think certain people do not appreciate the work of a TA and thats fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But, all TAs are different. Some are trained to a high standard. I'm not saying they are trained to a teacher level but they have completed lots of training and are more than capable of supporting groups of children to complete their work.

TAs are also great for helping fill any gaps in the learning. There is no point in children who are struggling being made to learn their times tables for instance. Its much more sensible to allow them to work in small groups to develop the skills they are lacking in.

Some TAs are worth their weight in gold IMO.