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Original poster

Teacher v TA Maths Groups.

144 replies

RichJU · 30/11/2010 22:18

Hi,

My DS (Yr 2) is struggling with his maths - he has had hearing issues and misses much of what gets described by the teacher.

When I asked him why he doesn't ask the teacher when unsure, he told me that after the inital "lecture" by the teacher his group are taught by the TA whilst the teacher goes with the other group (the confident maths kids).

The TA just draws rings round his wrong answers. Anecdotally I know that the teacher continues the teaching with her group using whiteboard etc to get the subject across, whilst my son's group are left to get on with it.

He's unhappy (tears last week), we're unhappy - what would you do?

My (teacher) sister finds it unethical that the TA and Teacher never swap groups. So do I but fear making his life difficult by raising it.

Would you advise getting a tutor to bridge the gap and say nothing or tackle this.

OP posts:
Feenie · 01/12/2010 19:31

You would have to say though that that is a very unusual case, overmydeadbody.

overmydeadbody · 01/12/2010 19:32

And luckily, the TA in DS's class is actually a qualified teacher, with small children, so chooses to work as a TA with shorter hours and less pressure. But essentially she is a much better teacher than the 'teacher'.

Hulababy · 01/12/2010 19:32

I agree with you mrz - TAs shpould be able to deal with the top level work expected of a primary school child.

c0rns1lk · 01/12/2010 19:33

agree with mrz - children who spend too much time with a TA make less progress as they don't get enough teacher time

overmydeadbody · 01/12/2010 19:33

Yes feenie, unusal that the teacher is crap, but not unusual that the TA is good.

Feenie · 01/12/2010 19:33

"and I know for a fact that the TA gives her loads of guidance and support, simply because she is really good and has 12 years experience, and basically has to support the teacher's teaching, to the extent that they go over the lesson plans together and the TA advises the teacher."

How can you possibly know this, overmydeadbody?

overmydeadbody · 01/12/2010 19:34

c)rn some children who get extra help from TAs get far more one to one time with an adult than the kids left with the teacher.

Feenie · 01/12/2010 19:34

"unusal that the teacher is crap, but not unusual that the TA is good."

Agreed.

overmydeadbody · 01/12/2010 19:35

Feenie, because I do. I'm a teacher as well.

c0rns1lk · 01/12/2010 19:36

yes but the one to one may not be specific enough - particularly for sen children

c0rns1lk · 01/12/2010 19:37

article here

overmydeadbody · 01/12/2010 19:38

c0rn one to one, for SEN childrne, is very very specific. TAs who are assigned to a specific child are mostly very good and tailor everything they do to that specific child, aspecially if they have SEN, and work closely with the SENCO, the teacher (if the teacher is good) and all the specialists from outside agencies that might have input into the child's learning needs.

WIthout it, SEN children wouldn't be in mainstream schools doing so well. It's not to the teacher's credit, it's to the TAs'.

mrz · 01/12/2010 19:39

As mnistooaddictive said ^It may be that the TA doesn't have the mathematical
Knowledge^ rather damning indeed nobelegiraffe

overmydeadbody · 01/12/2010 19:40

Oh great c0rn, let's just do away with TAs then, and watch all these failing childrne suddenly achieving. I think not.

mrz · 01/12/2010 19:40

In my school 1-1 support is delivered by a teacher.

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2010 19:41

mrz, I have no idea why you referred me to that speculative post as being conclusive of anything regarding this actual TA.

c0rns1lk · 01/12/2010 19:43

No-one's saying to do away with TAs

overmydeadbody · 01/12/2010 19:43

mrz one to one support by a teacher even when the child needs constant one to one support? As in, they can't even eat their lunch in the dinner hall weithout help from an adult? That's all done by the teacher?

Or do your school pay another teacher solely to teach said child?

Hulababy · 01/12/2010 19:44

As a TA I do a lot of 1:1 work wth children, mainly those with IEPs, whilst the teacher is teaching. But it does very much depend on the nature of the child's needs.

mrz · 01/12/2010 19:45

Physical needs are met by a learning support assistant extra educational support in 1-1 sessions are provided by a SEN teacher.

mrz · 01/12/2010 19:48

It's damning the TA that neither of you believe the TA is capable of working with the able children (either because their knowledge isn't up to it or they wouldn't manage a larger group under the direction of a teacher)

c0rns1lk · 01/12/2010 19:49

hula aren't you a teacher as well as a TA or have I got you mixed up Confused?

Hulababy · 01/12/2010 19:53

mrz - there must be some children this can't work for though surely?

For example - I have a child with selective mutism. He doesn't speak. He doesn't sign. He will rarely participate in whole class activities - well he will sit, but he wpon't join in, won;t offer or answer questions, won't speak to a partner, etc. He simply won't or can't. Whilst he can and does listen to what is going on, he isn't always taking it in and can then not go off and do the work expected of him. When sat working he needs someone sat with him at all times.

What about EAL children with very limited English? How do you manage that?

Last year we had a child with severe learning difficulties due to Down's ydrome. She could not talk, was learning basic signs,etc. She was 5/y6y working around 18-24 months age. This was physical needs, emotionl needs and education needs - all severely delayed. There is no way the class teacher could have even attempted to do all the 1:1 education needs for this child whilst still support the rest of the class, let alone her other needs. How would your school deal with such a situation?

I am curious as it is very different to how we deal with things where I am.

Hulababy · 01/12/2010 19:55

c0rns1lk - yes. I am a qualified teacher and did work as one for a good 10 years; then did other education based stuff, and now work as a TA - love it, all the best bits of teaching without the workload of the teacher side of things. Fab whilst DD is still young.

littlebrownmouse · 01/12/2010 19:56

I often work with 3 kids while TA oversees what the rest are doing. All the children in my class have a right to a bit of my time. I always do the teaching (input), but work with a different group every day as does my TA. My lower ability maths group has three children so one lesson a week I work with 3 children, TA isn't teaching, I've already done that, she is there while kids have a go at whatever I've taught them to do. When I work with less able group, all my attention is on them in a way that it doesn't have to be when I work with more able group simply because they can generally concentrate better and are more independent (and often motivated) in their learning. When I work with less able group, TA oversees others and the less able group ( like all other groups in my class) have to work alone for two or three sessions a week. It is possible to do some input and differentiate appropriately so that the less able have work they can access and do alone. If I have a child with a one to one support, that person will probably be with the child when I am working with their group. There'll be two of us if need be because child with one to one also deserves an equal amount of my time. My TAs are fabulous, intelligent, professional people who do a brilliant job but I'm the one in charge, I'm being paid a decent wage, I've done the training, been on courses, set the targets and done the planning. Every child deserves a bit of my time.