Returning large items, refunds, tracking etc. Help

[JaneBirkin]

I bought a sofa on ebay, from a business seller. This means apparently that they have to accept returns - and it says on the listing, returns must be requested within 7 days, delivery charges non refundable etc etc. (I know this doesn't mean they have to but I think under the consumer act they do).

Sofa is hideous, well parts of it are - described as high quality but on a lot of it they have used the cheapest, thinnest leather possible that looks and feels like plastic. It's horrid.

I rang the shop and asked to return it. They were funny about it but said yes, Tuesday. It arrived yesterday btw. they said the packaging is gone, so it is a problem, but I looked this up on the consumer website thingy and it said they can't refuse because of packaging and they took it with them anyway. So I think I'm ok there.

Problem is I paid with paypal, and I can't get tracking for the return, because the shop is collecting it themselves in their van. I'm worried they won't refund or will keep too much of my original payment.

I rang paypal who were useless and said that without online tracking they couldn't do anything. I said well, they don't have tracking for the delivery either, so can't I say I haven't received it, once they've taken it away?
They said no, as they know I've received it because I've told them

I'm not sure what to do. What if they pick it up, then refuse to refund - can I then open a claim? I don't know what the answer is and am really worried about it as the shop obviously want to make it as difficult as possible.

Update!

After a particularly arsey email from him a few minutes ago, I responded and then he put that he may have a local buyer he can sell it to.

I really hope so. I said I don't mind contributing to costs depending on whether he loses out etc. Result? Maybe...

am getting a bit attached to the sofa. Is that weird? I was almost considering a partial refund for a few minutes.

don't you dare contribute a penny towards it - after all this you can't back down

Well, he has backed down a bit. He seems convinced I'm being unfair. We are both like dogs with a bone.
He suddenly just said he might have a local buyer, I really hope he has. I sent the sample letter today, by email, glad I didn't send the paper copy yet.

He says please stop the emails as I am making things worse for myself

I think he might do anything to shut me up tbh.

hi what happenned? Jane

has he collected it? do hope it has disppeared so you can get nice sofa!

I found this on ebay pages

"The Distance Selling Regulations apply to items purchased via Buy It Now listings and Second Chance Offers on eBay.co.uk. However, they don't apply to auction format listings on eBay.co.uk."

so change of mind returns only apply to buy it now and second chance, "The cancellation rights do not apply to certain items including software, audio or video recordings that have been unsealed, perishable goods such as food or flowers, or items that have been made to order" .like curtains or if you had name painted on a mug

Hiya, thanks for asking. It's still here...

he said last week that he might have a local buyer he could sell it to and would let me know. I didn't hear another peep.

Though I noticed that he had the same item on an auction format with low start price, which was finishing last night. It didn't go that high but with the augmented postage he'd added, it would nearly cover the price of mine. I don't know if it was a local buyer or not.

But he took all the identical listings off, yesterday, a few hours before it finished - perhaps to encourage people to bid on that one? I don'#t know what he is up to.

I sent the sale of goods act sample letter last week and have not had a response to that either. I'm not sure what to do next.

I could escalate now, from this morning, but have sent a note saying I'd rather we resolved it between us so I'm giving him a bit longer. I rang ebay to say about the huge cost of returning the item, again, and they said they would send him a 'courtesy email' asking him to collect the item, but that he didn't have to do it.

I'm just waiting now to see what happens if anything. I've also said I'm still willing to stand by my original offer to let him keep the delivery charge if we sort it out without escalating.

Concerns are: ebay will find against me, or he will refuse to collect, or we'll end up with a legal case and I don't think either party wants that. I wish he would compromise a little bit, I've tried very hard to be reasonable.

anyway I'll let you know what happens.

I hope it works out for you. I have never heard of the courtesy email from eBay asking him to collect the item, I wonder if they would just refund you and then tell him to collect it? I can't believe he is dragging his heels over this as as far as he is concerned you could be taking him to court and reporting him to trading standards.

Did you have any more joy with your bank or are you leaving that until the dispute is over?

Hiya .

I don't think the bank is going anywhere tbh. They said if it had been put through, it would have come back as a fraudulent/false claim, or something, as the payment was authorised and faulty goods are not covered. (despite the DD 'guarantee' promising an immediate refund, ha ha) But I told them paypal wouldn't have disputed it as he has no proof of delivery. So maybe I should have done it when I had the chance.

I don't know what letter to send if he doesn't answer this one. Yes I can't believe he is faffing when he could be being taken to court.

Ebay don't seem to have sent anything yet - they were going to send me something or other about escalation as well, that hasn't turned up.

So I've no idea what's going on. I may wait till this evening and then if no response from anyone, escalate.

Thanks again for all your help btw. I really do appreciate it

They did say, doesn't qualify for a no fault refund as it's too expensive and they would require me to return it.

But I wonder if they could refund first. I don't know, it's a strange system.

:) I'm just sorry it's gone on so long.

I reckon you should escalate tonight if you don't hear - you never know eBay may come good. Then if no luck there then go back to consumer direct - I think you would need to write again, and then you could start the court claim online.

I think you have been more than fair with him to be honest - he is sticking his head in the sand counting on you giving up I reckon.

Ok, I'll escalate if he doesn't come up with any ideas before tonight. He's had six days to 'let me know in the morning' and not a sausage.

It's his problem. I mean presuming they DO find in my favour - which I don't take for granted. If they don't, I will possibly take it further with CD, as ebay seem to reckon they are above the law so it means very little.

More aggro though which is why I am hesitating to escalate. And if they find in my favour I will make a fuss about the cost of returning it, and see what they say then.

Why on earth would he have cancelled all his other listings for the same product? It makes no sense.

If they do find against him though it's more ammo for any potential court claim.

I wonder where his brain is at tbh.

Yes I agree it is aggro and stress for you - but it is your hard earned money and he ripped you off and now doesn't care - and of course legally he is in the flipping wrong!

I've escalated as not heard from him in a week. Useless sod (sorry).
I mentioned that he has admitted it has damage, he doesn't know what it's made from, he copied the listing and used a stock photo, I also mentioned the UK law that requires him to collect goods if of unsatisfactory quality, and I mentioned that it will be expensive to return with tracking.
I didn't want him to see that part as it'll make him refuse to collect it. But they have printed it anyway.
I am scared now, of his reaction, of their decision, and of getting nasty emails from him possibly (though he can't use the resolution centre any more).
I don't know what will happen next.

Ebay have emailed and found in my favour. They say I need to provide tracking though. I'm currently on hold trying to discuss this with them. They have apparently emailed the seller asking him to collect the item but goodness knows what if he won't.

is it worth emailing him and telling him he has to collect it as eBay are refunding you

mind you him collecting is not proof of receipt is it, and he would have to manually refund you the money

Ohhhhh crikey. Well apparently, now, even a scanned delivery note is not acceptable as proof of return which is just shite isn't it?

I think ebay are emailing him to ask him to collect it. He may respond. I don't know.
looks like I have two options...I can take the sofa back there, and demand that he refund me before we hand it over. Or I can look for another quote with tracking and do that, if it's (inconceivably) below the other quote I had.

Or I can ask him to collect it as otherwise it may be damaged in transit, I can't vouch for the courier I will use (he doesn't know who I might use). I'm not sure how much ebay have told him about what happens next.

I mean if it goes back damaged, he will still have to refund. So he may as well collect it himself and be careful with it.

Ebay are useless. The man on the phone really wanted to help but could not do anything, his hands are tied by policy.

The bank won't do anything. I could take it further in terms of CD letters etc but honestly it sounds like a right old hassle.

I will wait tonight and keep looking for quotes.

Am glad you won the dispute - this will count as a black mark against your seller and of course you still can leave bad feedback and stars for him.

I guess now he will just ignore you - what an arse of a seller he is!

If it were me I would take him to court - he is local to you so it will be at a local court? I am sure you would win the case - maybe it is worth another call to Consumer Direct to see what the next step is now?

I also wonder if it is worth 1 last call to the bank - after all you were told you could claim it back, so maybe you will get lucky with whoever takes the call?

I'm glad if he gets a black mark. Not sure whether to leave feedback now and offer to have it removed if he refunds, or try and keep him sweet for now so more chance he will collect...ebay sent me the useless email they had sent him ASKING politely if he would pick it up as it is so expensive to return! Load of eejits like that's going to persuade him...

I will call CD in the morning and ask their advice. Not a WORD from him at all. Getting a few quotes through shiply and so on, have started a thread in chat asking people if they know any couriers who can do online tracking for large items. It's not looking hopeful. I kwym about the bank - I considered doing that earlier but think they have written something on my account now so I doubt I'd get anywhere.

Oh he is a wanker.

i agree with you - and yes wait for feedback for the minute, there is no rush for that just yet.

Finally got through to someone in the resolution call centre, who knew his stuff. He said that yes, a scanned proof of delivery is FINE and all I need to do is obtain this and scan it and put it onto an email.
He's going to email me this same information in case someone else disputes it.
So here goes...going to ask the seller once more to collect it, or else I will be sending it back by courier.
Thankyou for your help

fingers crossed - have you found a cheap courier then?

Yes - only £35 and local. I have to check how professional the paperwork is though, and of course will wait till I have written confirmation that ebay will accept scanned POD. Otherwise will end up with no sofa and no money!

I have emailed seller saying, I have a courier ready to go, and we don't need tracking after all, so to let me know if he prefers to collect it himself as he probably knows how to handle sofas and will be more careful.

ahem. Not that it will get damaged or anything, but he is scared of this so maybe it will work.
I will need to get him to refund me first if he collects it though. No way will he be taking it away first.

Absolute f*cking bollocks to ebay. ONCE AGAIN they have sent an email saying that they were wrong, and that they can ONLY accept online tracking. They are so, so stupid.

I am and also in despair as I haven't heard back from any of the fifteen or so courier firms I emailed yesterday evening. Or the sodding bastard seller. (sorry).
Looks like unless he comes and gets it I am stuck with this piece of tat.

I have so had enough. Ebay is rubbish...how the feck do they expect me to do this?
Only other options are to turn up, try to deliver it and if he doesn't accept it, take it home again - and it's very likely he will not accept it - or to go the small claims route. I will still ring CD this morning and see if they can suggest anything.
He's stopped replying entirely, to anything.

Fergoose - do you know anything about their non authentic items policy? I've been reading up and it says that if an item is believed to be not authentic, or counterfeit, you don't have to return it but should instead destroy it.

I have rechecked the label on this thing and it's described as 'buffalo leather' on the listing, but no mention of this on the label. The seller also didn't assert that it was in the dispute.

So I'm wondering if it might count, or not.