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Original poster

Returning large items, refunds, tracking etc. Help

181 replies

JaneBirkin · 29/10/2011 11:59

I bought a sofa on ebay, from a business seller. This means apparently that they have to accept returns - and it says on the listing, returns must be requested within 7 days, delivery charges non refundable etc etc. (I know this doesn't mean they have to but I think under the consumer act they do).

Sofa is hideous, well parts of it are - described as high quality but on a lot of it they have used the cheapest, thinnest leather possible that looks and feels like plastic. It's horrid.

I rang the shop and asked to return it. They were funny about it but said yes, Tuesday. It arrived yesterday btw. they said the packaging is gone, so it is a problem, but I looked this up on the consumer website thingy and it said they can't refuse because of packaging and they took it with them anyway. So I think I'm ok there.

Problem is I paid with paypal, and I can't get tracking for the return, because the shop is collecting it themselves in their van. I'm worried they won't refund or will keep too much of my original payment.

I rang paypal who were useless and said that without online tracking they couldn't do anything. I said well, they don't have tracking for the delivery either, so can't I say I haven't received it, once they've taken it away?
They said no, as they know I've received it because I've told them Hmm

I'm not sure what to do. What if they pick it up, then refuse to refund - can I then open a claim? I don't know what the answer is and am really worried about it as the shop obviously want to make it as difficult as possible.

OP posts:
Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 09:36

yes apparently. I'm not sure how though. Might write a letter and send it recorded but at the moment, I'm waiting for an answer to my earlier thing about the chargeback. I don't want to do both at once.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 09:41

you basically write now giving him a set time to pick up and refund you in full, this is the letter before action I think. If he doesn't do this you then start a money claim online for your money and the cost of the claim.

Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 09:43

Thankyou. I spoke to the direct debit helpline and they said they don't cover faulty goods? So the bank was right and can't claim it back.

I want to cry.
Might have to go through court thing then I suppose.
Waiting to hear back from him as he doesn't know bank situation.

OP posts:
Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 09:47

I just rang his secretary. She said that if I do a chargeback, he will take me to the small claims court Hmm I said I could do that under the sale of goods act, so I'd prefer he sorted it out between us and just came to get it.
She said he's out on delivery all day but I asked her to pass the message on.
Wish I had done the chargeback when it was offered now.
I feel so sick.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 10:29

he will take you to court - erm what for, an utter joke

fergoose · 31/10/2011 10:33

go ahead and do the chargeback now then - he is going to take you to court for a sofa you have told him to collect? he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

and his secretary sounds a piece of work

fergoose · 31/10/2011 10:34

and your paypal payment isn't a direct debit so they are wrong - call the bank again.

Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 10:38

It is a DD, Fergoose. Apparently. I might try and speak to the visa chargeback team instead, though the bank's already said it has nothing to dow ith visa - but the bank keeps getting things wrong so worth a try.

Anyway I'm really concerned now about him taking me to court. I know it sounds silly but he is really giving it his best shot here, and I don't know if he would win, if he is this determined.

How on earth can I prove it's not of satisfactory quality? It's surely very subjective.

OP posts:
Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 10:40

Maybe it is best to wait until ebay make a decision. If they say he wins, then I'll look at my other options. If they agree with me, then hopefully I can persuade them to accept a signed delivery note. I'm just worried about getting proof of attempted delivery if he refuses it iyswim?

how can I prove that? This is what is scaring me, that I might win but still not be able to return it. I know he's supposed to collect it under sale of goods act BUT I just don't know if I can face fighting with him any more, if there's a chance it might go his way.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 10:44

eBay may not require proof of delivery - didn't they say that to you the other day?

Do not back down - and you can also write that letter too. This man is a bully, do not let him wear you down. He is in the wrong, CD have told you that now - what can he take you to court for. You have told him you are rejecting the goods and he must pick up and refund - he has absolutely no grounds for a court case. He sounds like an armchair lawyer who is cornered and is trying to scare you away.

Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 11:36

I think you're right, he is cornered and he is trying to beat me down.

He's now responded quoting the sale of goods act at me, but consumer direct said if it is damaged, which it is - it's been stored so that one of the arms is squashed - and it's not resolving by itself as I thought it might, probably because the leather is so shit - I can reject it on that basis.

I need to send the first template letter. Was working on it when the electric went off, we're having work done...so hopefully I can do that now.
I've told him he can choose, I''ve got someone willing to retur the sofa for me (my friend but anyway!) I just need to talk to ebay about proof of delivery or what to do if he refuses delivery.

I've said the longer he leaves it here, the less 'new' it will be. So the ball is in his court.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 11:49

how can he quote the sale of goods act - he doesn't know what he is talking about!

Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 11:59

Crap isn't it. He hasn't said he definitely won't come and get it though.

I'm on hold to ebay now, see what they say regarding not having to return it, possibly...or making him collect it.

OP posts:
Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 12:00

I've told him that they have said they may not require me to return it as it is a large item.

I feel he is wavering.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 12:05

ok he can refund and you will donate the sofa to charity - he really doesn't have any choice or say in the matter

You only need to make it available for collection - end of.

Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 12:08

Well I'm still on hold. They did say the other day that he might have to collect it. This is good.
I need to ask them for sure though. I think they review on a case by case basis.

Hoping he comes to his senses. It looks like I have a good reason not to chargeback yet, too...I could still (if I can, at all) do that after ebay have refunded me. And if I wait, they might say he has to refund and collect it.

OP posts:
Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 12:08

They may still decide against me though.

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fergoose · 31/10/2011 12:11

he's a fool accepting paypal if he is delivering with no online tracking proving delivery

you could easily have done a not received dispute with paypal, or even a bank chargeback for item not received and he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on as he has no proof you have the sofa

mind you - you wouldn't want to be dishonest and lower yourself to his level

fergoose · 31/10/2011 12:11

mind you - you could tell him that the bank will do a chargeback on the grounds that item was not received - he doesn't know you aren't going to do this does he.

Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 12:24

Well I've told him that I can do a chargeback but wanted to save him the fees and hassle, and keep this amicable (ha).
The secretary said if I do a chargeback he'll take me to court.
Ebay said that yes, they might ask the seller to collect the item if it goes in my favour. But they wouldn't promise anything yet as it hasn't been escalated.
They kept harping on about getting proof of delivery or proof that he has refused delivery.
You're right, I could have done a not received but I would have been worried about that as I did receive it, though he can't prove it.
I kept saying I can't prove it if he refuses delivery. They said wait, and they will do their best to make sure it is resolved.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 12:35

you could argue that you didn't receive the item as per the photo but got junk instead - but it wouldn't be ethical or right, and as he is local you don't want him turning up being a git.

when you escalate the case make sure you write in you have asked the seller to collect but he has refused, and the cost of you returning with a signature is way too much for you to pay. also quote the sale of goods act in the dispute saying you only have to make it available for collection, and as he is a business consumer direct have told you he has to collect at his expense.

Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 13:08

Well I've sent the sample letter by email and will copy it to paper and send it recorded delivery this afternoon if possible.

He might decide to fight it. He might not. I don't know. Ebay dispute is ooking fairly hopeful as well I suppose.

Thankyou for your cheerleading, it has meant an awful lot.

Landlord is onside and quite happy to pretend to be a courier. Though he doesn't have a van, only a trailer Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 13:09

I have a feeling that he couldn't collect it today in any case as he's too busy, but maybe he will decide to tomorrow.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 13:40

will keep everything crossed.