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Returning large items, refunds, tracking etc. Help

181 replies

JaneBirkin · 29/10/2011 11:59

I bought a sofa on ebay, from a business seller. This means apparently that they have to accept returns - and it says on the listing, returns must be requested within 7 days, delivery charges non refundable etc etc. (I know this doesn't mean they have to but I think under the consumer act they do).

Sofa is hideous, well parts of it are - described as high quality but on a lot of it they have used the cheapest, thinnest leather possible that looks and feels like plastic. It's horrid.

I rang the shop and asked to return it. They were funny about it but said yes, Tuesday. It arrived yesterday btw. they said the packaging is gone, so it is a problem, but I looked this up on the consumer website thingy and it said they can't refuse because of packaging and they took it with them anyway. So I think I'm ok there.

Problem is I paid with paypal, and I can't get tracking for the return, because the shop is collecting it themselves in their van. I'm worried they won't refund or will keep too much of my original payment.

I rang paypal who were useless and said that without online tracking they couldn't do anything. I said well, they don't have tracking for the delivery either, so can't I say I haven't received it, once they've taken it away?
They said no, as they know I've received it because I've told them Hmm

I'm not sure what to do. What if they pick it up, then refuse to refund - can I then open a claim? I don't know what the answer is and am really worried about it as the shop obviously want to make it as difficult as possible.

OP posts:
fergoose · 30/10/2011 19:47

no the bank are not wrong!

JaneBirkin · 30/10/2011 19:47

He doesn't know how I paid apart from it was paypal.

OP posts:
JaneBirkin · 30/10/2011 19:50

Thing is I don't know how to get proof they collected it, or proof I had it delivered back iyswim.

I don't know if a bit pf paper will do and they might refuse to sign for it, and I won't have proof we attempted delivery unless I use a large company like TNT and get online tracking. That costs £200-

OP posts:
fergoose · 30/10/2011 19:51

but you won't need that will you

eBay even told you that didn't they?

He has to collect - consumer direct will tell you this tomorrow

JaneBirkin · 30/10/2011 19:59

Ebay said something about scanning a proof of delivery, but I can't get a signature if they won't sign for it, so I can't prove refused delivery iyswim.

If I say to him I might put in a chargeback, maybe it will make him want to come and collect it asap. That's my thinking.

But he might call my bluff and I might be wrong.

OP posts:
FabbyChic · 30/10/2011 20:05

As the item is large he actually has to collect. PayPal are not going to help you and it will cost a lot for you to send back signed for with online tracking. Proof that they collected via a signature wont help with PayPal or eBay your only course of redress if they are not decent enough to refund is for you to take legal action via moneyclaimonline.

Your stuck between a rock and a hard place really.

FabbyChic · 30/10/2011 20:06

Your bank are correct, they can go via the direct debit indemnity route, however that will render your PayPal account useless and PayPal will close it meaning you can't have a PayPal account anymore with a bank account attached.

fergoose · 30/10/2011 20:08

eBay did say to you though that online proof of delivery may not be required - I think they look at each case on a case by case basis.

How local to you is the seller, they must be nearby if they only charged you £20 and delivered the item to you?

JaneBirkin · 30/10/2011 20:09

Really? How come it will do that to my paypal account?

Sorry to be dim. I don't mind too much btw. I'm willing to sacrifice the paypal account, I think, if it gets me out of this without any more hassle.

OP posts:
JaneBirkin · 30/10/2011 20:09

Only 15 miles away.

What if ebay find against me though?

OP posts:
JaneBirkin · 30/10/2011 20:10

Do you think I ought to send him the message and see what happens?

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fergoose · 30/10/2011 20:18

yes send him the message

i have never heard of a chargeback sacrificing a paypal account either?!

JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 06:39

Okay, haven't sent it yet. I don't want to put it through the official dispute messages as they might see 'chargeback' as a threat or something, and close the case in his favour.
I might ring the secretary person and get her to tell him.
Or I could email directly.
I'm not sure what to do.
I've spoken to the bank again and they said yes, they can do it, however it might be re-debited if they find it was a justified payment. Paypal say they won't dispute it, though, if it's not as described or he delivered the item.
I'm waiting to see if he agrees to refund.

Any thoughts on how to tell him? Phone, email etc.

OP posts:
JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 06:49

What do you think:

Hello,
I spoke to ebay and they say there's no way to escalate before 6th November.
I really would like this to be concluded asap as it's very stressful. My bank has suggested that they are willing to reverse the payment, which to be honest I would rather not do as I feel this has become acrimonious enough, however I would appreciate it if you could please arrange to refund as promised, and collect the sofa as soon as possible.
If you still refuse to honour your original promise to refund, and collect it, I shall have no choice but to go through the bank, and this would incur a fee for you from paypal on top of the refund. Also I don't think seller protection would cover you as the item was delivered and not as described.

Could you arrange to refund prior to collection please, as I will not be able to let you remove the sofa unless the refund is completed. I assure you that it will be made available as soon as the case is closed and refund received.
Thankyou.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 07:56

yes that's fine - also mention you have taken advice from consumer direct and they have told you to take him to court.

JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 07:59

Thanks Fergy.
I suspect he will be well versed in this sort of thing so need to be completely sure about it before I send it.
Things like, if he delivered it in person but used a man and van service and has my signature, does that count as proof of delivery, if the bank have to put it through as unauthorised, that kind of thing.
I hope he will just agree to refund but if he doesn't, I'll have to actually do it iyswim.
I wonder if there is a time limit for disputing a chargeback? So I know when it's safe to let him collect it.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 08:24

if he does dispute it you can take him to court

JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 08:46

bank now saying they won't. I despair.

Trying to get through to paypal but they seem to be closed? Weirdly.

Apparently direct debit doesn't cover not as described goods after all, can't believe this. I already sent the message to the seller though, so hopefully he might just agree to refund. bastard

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 09:03

speak to someone else at the bank? You can use the chargeback for a disputed transaction - ask to speak to a supervisor. Mention complaining to the banking ombudsman and the FSA.

Consumer Direct should be open now too.

fergoose · 31/10/2011 09:05

whatconsumer.co.uk/paypal-chargeback/

JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 09:08

thanks...on hold to CD now.
Rang bank back, they are looking into it further to see if they can help.
Not feeling too hopeful...but still hoping seller will agree to refund anyway. I don't know. He hasn;t replied yet though it is early.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 09:13

write down everything CD tell you.

JaneBirkin · 31/10/2011 09:31

They said write to him, he has to refund and collect under sale of goods act.
Just about to let him know this as well.

No response yet to my earlier email.

OP posts:
fergoose · 31/10/2011 09:32

there you are then - he hasn't got a leg to stand on

And if he doesn't do this within a set time you take him to small claims court?