Worried about teen DD. Will Beat help?

[Weightlossworried]

I'm becoming worried about my 15 yo. She's always been slim with a small appetite but lately she seems to have lost weight and is eating even less.
She denies any issues around food/body image when I've gently raised it. She hates school and for a long time has refused breakfast or to eat much or anything while there saying she feels too sick and anxious. She used to make up for it at home but doesn't really any more. She does always eat dinner and enjoys helping make it too.
I have no idea how much she weighs as we don't have scales and I don't think it would be helpful to weigh her but she is visibly thinner I believe, although she denies it.
I am pretty scared of saying or doing the wrong thing and making it worse. Can Beat offer help with this to parents? Thanks

If your dd will eat what you give her then the idea is energy dense and to include calorific puddings at lunch and dinner. Rebuilding muscle isn’t easy so your dd will need protein, think meat, eggs, and cheese. Animal proteins and fats are much needed for brain health. So plenty of cream and butter too. If your dd will eat a rainbow of fruits and vegetables, include these as well as they are good for her gut bacteria and mental health. But be careful not to allow her to fill herself up on these. Blueberries help with low mood.

The traditional energy dense diet that we had in centuries gone by comes to mind. Everyone ate full fat. Bread and dripping wasn’t uncommon. My mother used to cook potatoes in the lard from the previous week’s Sunday roast. And I’m now dreaming about the lardy cake we used to get as a kid from the long since gone bakery.

And snacks should be energy dense as well. Eg Flapjacks, cheese, biscuits and add in a bit of fruit. My dd (until her recent relapse and she’s now refusing) was eating a slice of cheese, a pack of Belvita biscuits and some easy peelers and grapes for morning snack.

I agree with the 110% weight for height. To fully recover, your dd does need to overshoot on what she would have naturally been by about 10%. Right now that’s not happening with my dd. She still won’t admit to herself she has an issue even though she’s aware at a subconscious level and eating enough to very slowly gain weight. But with your dd, she has a lot more awareness so things will hopefully go a lot smoother for you.

How are you doing @Weightlossworried. I think you have your appointment this week.

Thank you for asking! We've been enjoying a bit of calm before the storm I think. Still no real weight gain but no loss either.

We have CAHMs tomorrow and DD is very anxious about it. She's been opening up to us quite a bit which is good. She says she's been happy enough eating the 3 meals and 3 snacks because she can see she's not gaining weight. She is very very reluctant to put any weight on. At the moment she says she doesn't care what she misses out on, she would choose not gaining weight over everything. There's going to be tough times ahead for all of us I think as we try and get her past that and back to a healthy weight.

She is also very anxious about Easter. She's become quite stressed about volumes of food in the house generally. Despite my reassurances that it's up to me to worry about managing that, and any food waste or leftovers.

We will all be on your shoulder tomorrow. Did the GP have any physical health concerns?

Did they say what the meeting will be tomorrow? We were there about two hours, they did warn us we would be there a while. We saw a nurse and then two Cahms professionals. They spoke to my daughter on her own.

I will be thinking of you tomorrow. They asked us a lot of questions! I really hope your daughter is honest tomorrow. I’m glad she’s been honest with you xx

The first GP we saw said he thought he detected a slight heart murmur but said it wasn't anything to worry about. He had pretty much decided she was anaemic though. And she isn't, her iron levels are good.

I'm going to ask them about that tomorrow as they've already told us they're doing blood tests so I assume they're doing a physical as well. If not I'll follow up with the GP.

They said it would be a long appointment, a few hours. The nurse said there would be a dietician there as well.

And thank you @Pearl97 so much for the support

Definitely let her watch her friend ride, as a horse person just being around horses can be therapeutic plus the social aspect too. Even if she can’t ride just grooming or sitting talking with friends

Thinking of you for tomorrow. It's a big step and will probably be overwhelming. My DD always needs time to decompress afterwards and it's usually the worst day of the week eating wise.
The bloods may also check for any deficiencies as there can be issues with re feeding if things have got unbalanced. I think if DDs diet has remained relatively balanced whilst being restricted the chances are there'll be nothing to note, but that's something they check for.
Not minding eating but hating gaining weight is very familiar too, we're still in the world of covered mirrors, very few "acceptable" outfits and showers being traumatic as getting physically stronger has felt so wrong for DD
Camhs have seen that so many times before though so will reassure DD, and you

Thank you, it's sort of reassuring to know it's a common thing CAHMs will hopefully have experience dealing with.

We've already had bloods done by the GP and those were good, just slightly low vitamin d. Cahms say they want to do their own though.

I'll be glad to have tomorrow over with!

Thinking of you @Weightlossworried xx

Thank you. It went as well as it could. We met with a therapist, nurse and dietician. She had a physical check up and has been referred for an ECG. They asked loads of questions and gave us a nutritional plan. As expected we need to add a bit to what we're already giving her.

DD understandably a bit drained and upset by it all. She said she 'hated everyone in the room' as we left!

We have to go and have lunch there next week so they can watch us and give us advice. That completes the assessment apparently and they'll tell us what the plan is for how often they want to see us etc after that.

They've said they won't do therapy until she puts weight on as her weight is so low she's unlikely to be able to engage with it meaningfully.

We're not to weigh her at home, they'll do it there. They have a virtual parents group we can join as well which sounds good.

They said they'd had quite a bit of debate about whether she should be in school but decided as there's Easter holidays and she'll be finished altogether soon they were ok with her staying in but they're going to ask the school to supervise her morning snack and see what else they can offer to support.

Overall, I feel reasonably positive as it sounds like they're going to offer lots of support.

Yes, that does sound very thorough and helpful.
It's good that they're going to weigh her. I think that takes a bit of pressure away from you.
Did they say anything about the riding?

Hi @Weightlossworried I've been following your thread with interest. My own 15 y old DD has recently been referred to CAMHS by the GP and we are at a similar stage to you it seems, although I've only just had the first long phone call 'triage' appointment. She started off as healthy eating and using the running machine last Summer. It became too much and then at Christmas she told me her periods had stopped. I'm so upset I didn't see it coming, despite all the red flags. She weighed 47 kg at the GP (end of Jan) at 5 foot 8, and they just told us to get bloods done and come back in 6 weeks having put on 'some' weight. Found an online therapist via the BEAT website as DD said she couldn't do it, so we knew she had a real problem by then. The therapist has been great, but really scared us with talk of the CAMHS system. We went back early March and she'd lost another kg, so now at 46. Bloods showed some worrying levels, (low hormones etc), low Blood pressure too.

So here we are, now waiting to see what happens after the phone call - CAMHS may want to speak to DD on the phone next. No news of any more appointments yet. When I spoke to them they seemed satisfied that she is eating 3 meals a day (plus 2 snacks normally) . I guess some are a lot worse? However, she is very reluctant to eat high fat / sugar content and is constantly in the kitchen. She loves to cook, and looks at recipes for hours. I know this is a red flag too. She runs twice a week, (therapist said ok) but noone has said not to yet. She finds such joy in cooking and running (or am I being naive?)

It sounds like your DD has accepted she has an issue. That's really a good sign I think. If she's on TikTok there is a fab person on there called Healing Hattie - with loads of motivational posts. She's fully recovered and my daughter finds her videos really helpful. It was news to me that social media isn't all bad. I will keep following your progress. Don't want to derail your thread, but I wanted to reach out as it seems so familiar xxx

@baderror404 if you're DD is losing weight she shouldn't be running twice a week.

@Weightlossworried I’m glad the meeting went as well as it could. It’s mixed emotions isn’t it, as you’re glad they’re going to help you, but of course you would rather not have to be there!

It is good they’ve accepted you into their service and you go again next week. I did wonder what they would do about school.

I Hope you can sit with a quiet coffee today. You’ve been amazing throughout this, I hope you now feel supported in real life as well as on here.

Going back through these threads in days, weeks and months to come will help you see how far you’ve come xx

You might want to manage your expectations with school. Ours was quick to say there was no way any staff member was supervising any eating.

We were worried she wouldn’t eat at school thereby undermining our good work at home. We got round it by saying I would go in and supervise lunch. She hated that idea so we asked her close friend to message me if she did not have a snack and lunch. Both girls agreed. The friend is a sensible girl who wants to be a paramedic. We were lucky in a way as it was this time last year so they broke up anyway for GCSEs which was great for us as we then supervised every meal as we wfh.

@baderror404 I'm so sorry you're going through this as well. I'm also sorry you haven't seemed to have got the help you should have so far. You'll have seen a lot of people recommending Eva Musby on here, I bought the book and it's great. Reassuring and with lots of good advice and strategies.

We were told yesterday to keep DD out of the kitchen. No cooking at all. The way they described it is we need to take total control of food for her right now as it's a source of stress for her and she isn't able to make healthy decisions.

I agree that you probably need to stop her running. I hope you both get some proper help from CAHMs soon and don't worry about derailing. Feel free to walk with me on this awful journey we've found ourselves on.

Thank you @Pearl97 I do have some work to do today but I'm off the rest of the week thankfully. Me and DH are looking forward to just spending some time together.

@JuliettaCaeser We're already supervising lunch so it's only morning break we need support with. It's not a dealbreaker as long as she has a good breakfast and lunch. Especially with the last day of school for us tomorrow.

I just liked having someone on my side with regards to school. We haven't had a lot of support from them previously to this, she's been unhappy since year 9. My expectations are permanently low! He just took charge of it and said he was going to ring them which I feel pathetically grateful for. Me attempting to ask for support generally means leaving messages and emails and half the time nobody even responding.

@baderror404the running definitely needs to stop, your dd sounds really unwell and her heart could fail. She doesn’t enjoy running or cooking the anorexia likes it and wants the control.

Anorexia and your dd are two different beings and they both want different things. Anorexia ultimately wants to kill your dd so you have to take control and advocate for your dd.

The anorexia will kick off when it is challenged and doesn’t get what it wants. My usually lovely dd went completely wild when I started putting boundaries in place, swearing, telling me she hated me, running out of the house, head banging the walls. This is the ED showing its true colours.

Now my dd is well she says it was like she was possessed and the ED was telling her what to do. She was absolutely terrified and needed me to fight for her.

Please do join us on the long running caring for young people with ED thread, lots of us on there who have been exactly where you are now.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies thanks for your reply. Although I have read this about exercise and cooking, we haven't been told to do this by the GP or CAMHS yet, so I was sort of waiting.. she's reduced running from 5x times a week, to only 2 short ones. She is sporty , and loves cooking so that will be a massive step for us. Last night she made focaccia, and cooked a gnocchi bake. She is always cooking, she loves it, and I don't think it's the ED talking. Maybe I am being naive, but I thought it wasn't harmful in these circumstances (although I am feeling uneasy about it all). I know she likes to be in control and that's the main issue with ED. But we plan all the meals together carefully. She will totally despair if she's not allowed in the kitchen :(

Thanks @Weightlossworried I did buy the EM book, and dip into it alot. Some of it freaked me out, and I have also become very tearful. it's such an evil disease. Although we haven't been 'diagnosed' yet, I'm not even sure CAMHS will accept us as they haven't been in touch since my Triage phone call. My DD has never skipped meals, and eats 3 meals a day with 2/3 snacks so maybe they aren't worried 'enough'?

I get where you’re coming from @baderror404. I felt exactly the same with my dd and dancing when I was told on here, possibly by Girlie about 2 years ago that she needed to stop. I did stop it very shortly afterwards.

CAMHS and the GP told us bugger all. CAMHS are very patchy. Local CAMHS here is crap, very very different from Weightloss’s experience. As for your GP, they are by name general practitioners and have very little training in ED. And therefore in the area of ED, a lot of us know far more than them, simply because we have had to learn. It is a very complex illness.

As for the cooking, is your dd actually eating the food? It is incredibly common for sufferers to enjoy making food for others and going food shopping. My 17 yo dd loves going to a big supermarket. She’s unable to actually take much food off the shelves for herself and will only think to take an item she’s decided to pick up before going in. Therefore she’s unable to shop for herself.

I’m glad CAMHS has proved useful for you @Weightlossworried. Hopefully you’ll be able to get your dd into a routine with morning break snack. Sufferers find it easier to eat as the day goes on because of the food noise, ie the eating voices get louder when you eat and therefore it’s easier to concentrate when not eating much. However, it is really important to eat regularly and not eat vast quantities in the evenings as it can lead to bingeing due to extreme hunger. The. there’s a risk of guilt and purging or a lot of stomach pain, which is very common. Or developing a binge / restrict disorder.

Our easy going sweet natured non duplicitous girl became a sneaky lying snappy shadow of herself this time last year. It was really hard.

A year on from where you are and with the help of the Musby book technique and an excellent psychiatrist Dd is now normal (albeit low) bmi and eating normally and living her best life.

@baderror404 I understand about the running and cooking too. Its devastating to take things away from our girls when they feel it's not needed.
From my own, limited, experience, the running would be what I'd stop first. With us the potential dangers with and to the heart were spelled out and our previously fit DD then agreed to stop. She later revealed feeling faint when exercising, and what the doctors called urinary urgency, but at the time she was adamant she was fine to exercise
Cooking I personally would be more relaxed about, though I acknowledge there are infinitely wiser and more experience parents on here who make very good points. My DD only had a brief spell out of the kitchen, and at 17 we've felt giving her supervised responsibility was worthwhile. I've always planned and plated breakfast (the hardest meal) and evening meal, but she can and does help, and makes her own lunch and snack from agreed things. Sneaking ingredients made her go backwards, she eats better when she knows what she's having.

I'm wary based on the experiences of others and am always ready to take that autonomy away if it stops helping her eat and mentally get stronger, but if that feels like a step too far for you for now maybe see how it goes. Definitely supervised though, which also gives opportunities for chilled chats, to balance out the inevitable tensions!

@baderror404 please take on board the fact that the vast majority of GPs know very, very little about EDs. Their advice is therefore (unfortunately) not to be trusted.

Similarly, CAMHS services vary enormously from area to area.

Your daughter is at risk of a serious cardiac event if she keeps on running, especially while she is actively still losing weight. Please reconsider letting her run at the moment.