Teen Eating Disorders Thread 7

[Lottsbiffandsmudge]

We have managed to fill the previous Thread here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/eating_disorders/4471980-Teen-Eating-Disorders-Thread-6?page=40

So I thought I would start a new one.

Everyone supporting a young person with and ED is welcome here for advice (non professional but lived experience) and support.

Hoping everyone can find us...

@basilbrush here is a link to Beats overview or the NICE guidelines on EDs. You'll see a quick referral to specialist ED services if an ED is suspected is what should happen.. https://www.beateatingdisorders.org.uk/news/eating-disorders-news/nice-new-guideline-eating-disorders/

Thank you @Lottsbiffandsmudge

Thanks for the new thread @Lottsbiffandsmudge.

@basilbrush - here is a link to MEED - medical emergencies in eating disorders which replaced Junior Marsipan which was clinical guidance for "management of really sick patients under 18 with anorexia nervosa". It is a long document but table 1 should give you some additional information/questions you can use in your appointment to give you confidence they're using the right assessment framework.
www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/improving-care/better-mh-policy/college-reports/college-report-cr168.pdf

Thank you Lottsbiffandsmudge

Thanks lots. Hoping I don't need this thread but will pop on from time to time to support others as you were all so great when I needed the help.
DD has gone to university and so far, so good

Thanks lots I just had a little panic then when I saw the last thread had filled up 😂

Thank you for opening the new thread.

Rubbish day here today, DD threw her lunch at me and hit me with a full water bottle whilst calling me an f*ing idiot, all over a glass of fruit juice which was thrown over the table cloth. A year ago I would have been in tears, but now it really is a case of laugh or cry (outside of DD’s sight).

Thinking about the outbursts in the last twelve months, DH kicked in the never region is probably top closely followed by bedroom door being ripped off hinges and also DD attempting to climb from a first floor window.

I don’t intend to make light of the distressed behaviour, but what is the worst that your DC’s have done? It maybe useful for those new to this illness to have an insight on what to expect - CAMH did not warn us of this type of behaviour (then they have never lived this).

it is like another being takes over them at times in terms of violence/self harm. We used to (in lighter moments) describe it as Dd becoming Dark Willow from Buffy.
Not our experience but one from previous poster on an earlier thread involved their DD kicking through car windscreen from passenger seat if I recall correctly. I remember reading it and thinking both OMG how awful and also well I'll be damned in sort of awe - bit like when Dd told us how she hid food up her sleeves when she was in hospital for refeeding - I was both annoyed and slightly impressed by her ingenuity to not rustle in front of nurses...

Did not not want to wait another week for DD14 to see someone so have managed (by going to surgery in person and bursting into tears at reception desk) to get her a GP appointment after school today...

She doesn't know this yet but will be hysterical - she just keeps saying that she didn't mean to lose weight, she just needs 'more time' to feel less stressed....

But I decided we have to go now, if anything just to get her blood pressure / heart rate checked

Two lowlights of frightening behaviour. Opened the door of a moving car (fortunately a slow moving one due to 20mph limits but moving nonetheless). Came at DH with a kitchen knife.

Going back to the last thread, fairylights82 was talking about guilt. I am very convinced that it's got genetic roots. They used to blame 'refridgerator mothers' for autism, now we obviously know that's not true and that autism doesn't have a 'cause'. In the same way, there's nothing you've done to make this happen. Two things in my life convince me of this - firstly that both girl cousins on DH's side have anorexia too and it's not behaviourially linked since they are very different ages and don't see much of each other. Secondly that my mother did her very best to make me anorexic when I was an entirely normal teen (5'7, weighed 9 stone something), even going so far as to say 'anorexia might do you some good'. I did some stupid diets and don't think I have an unemotional relationship with food but never even came close to an eating disorder.

Another thing I felt guilty about was not doing something about it sooner - I knew she was losing weight but kept on fobbing myself off. I said this to the CAMHS team and they all smiled ruefully and said every single parent says the same thing and the important thing is that you're doing something now.

The odds for your dd of a full recovery are really good - the two biggest factors are her youth (the younger they are, the more likely they are to recover) and the fact that you're intervening.

basilbrush so pleased you've got an appointment. You're not overreacting.

Reiterating previous posters about how many calories they need. It's such a myth that anorexics eat 'nothing'. Part of the reason we delayed getting help was that DD seemed to be eating reasonably - she ate a good supper. We just woefully underestimated how much a teenage girl needs. According to the My Fitness Pal I found she was eating at least 1500 calories but was losing a kilo a week.

There's a real narrative around hungry teenage boys and maternal pride in saying 'ooo they're eating me out of house and home'. What teenage girls need is only marginally less but I never hear people boasting about the 10 pieces of toast their girls are eating. I think we have double standards around this.

Good luck today Basil. My dd was upset at the initial appointment but I think she was also relieved to be getting help.

@basilbrush good for you. And hope you get some action.
@Valleyofthedollymix my understanding is that AN requires a genetic predisposition and a trigger (weight loss).
My brother has a long term pyshcotic illness which was triggered at uni by being brain washed into an evangelical church.
AN presents as a physcotic illness. That's why olanzpaine in low doses can help (anti phsycotic). many sufferers, but not all, speak of the anorexic voice. My DD certainly did. Voices in his head was exactly what my brother had issues with along with manic depressive and OCD behaviours
DS1 has OCD and has suffered with his MH for years

I speak to all my kids about their genetic predisposition because triggers for psychosis can also include soft drugs such as weed which may seem 'harmless' to an average 17 year old boy but could have disastrous consequences for mine.
It took my brother over a decade to get well.

Yy to anorexia being a psychotic type illness, it is like they're possessed at the height of the illness.

Our worst episode was probably dd running out of the house in her socks with no coat in the middle of winter because I wanted her to eat a sandwich. Running around trying to find her and thinking I need to ring the police was definitely a low point.

I remember the poster who said their dd put their foot through the windscreen and then dryly added 'we decided on no snacks in the car after that....'

My DD kicked a hole in her bedroom wall when I asked her to stop doing star jumps.
On another occasion when I told her she could no longer go on walks without me she repeatedly slammed the oven door so hard the glas shattered into thousands of pieces all over the floor. I am not proud to say I totally lost it, wrestled her Apple watch off her wrist and smashed it with a hammer. Best thing I ever did......
She insisted on sitting on the trampoline in snow storm. She regularly paced round and round the outside of the house in socks.
Etc etc.

I really do love the cathartic nature of this thread and the benchmarks we can set ourselves eg "today was a tough one but on the upside no Apple watches were smashed so lets chalk it up as a win" Gallows humour has its rightful place imo..

How did your appointment go @basilbrush

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm just tired of it all. Nothing else to say really!

Hope it went well @basilbrush

I know this sounds bizzare but thank you for all those posts I thought that my AnD not only had anorexia but also anger issues that we needed to work on after she recovered as when I told CAMHS some of her behaviours they said it was not ‘normal of anorexics’ so is it just another behaviour driven by Anorexia ? We have had doors slammed off hinges, knife thrown in the car when I brought a sandwich with butter, trying to climb out of her upstairs window to go for a run when we said no and also throwing a jar of peanut butter which not only hit the dog but also broke the tv. Is this anorexia or something else ? Sorry to ask I am terrified to ask others or professionals as they made me feel like she was some sort of monster

Also I hope the appointment went well @basilbrush

Yeah love those sound like completely normal ED behaviours. I think the anxiety at being made to eat gets so intense they go into fight or flight mode but it can be very extreme. I'm assuming your Camhs workers haven't actually had a child with an ED? 😉

Someone said to me early on - you have to see the beast to slay it - which is true. You have to make them eat and they have to learn that whatever they chuck at you (literally in some cases) you won't back down.

In some ways the extreme behaviours just cemented in my mind how ill and irrational dd was being which helped give me the confidence to stay in control and get as many calories in as possible.

@Iovewinter yes all AN behaviours. My DD has no anger issues now she is recovered. The anger/ hysteria was verh out of character. Not sure how CAMHS don't know this!
I used so say to myself that if my DD had not got aggressive, hysterical or broken down in tears in a day I hadn't pushed hard enough.
This is why I didn't go with a softly softly approach. Imo you can't treat AN without upsetting the sufferer (well actually upsetting the ED) it just means you are facilitating the illness by keeping it happy.
Learn distress tolerance (a very powerful tool) and ride these behaviours out. And know that in provoking these responses you are doing EVERYTHING right.

@lovewinter - yes, DDs behaviour has made me question whether other psychiatric issues are present, I strangely take comfort knowing what others go through. Food being thrown is common, door slamming and furniture damaged another - running out of the house, sitting in the cold and wearing thin layers in winter. Head slamming against the wall and self harm are sadly what we have experienced as well.

Things escalating here. Got DDs first appointment with private psychiatrist on Thursday which I'm praying helps us to know what to do next.
She got very distressed tonight and ended up (mildly) self harming but enough to scare me and as her behaviour seem to ramping up is terrifying. She refused dessert and I took her phone but didn't get her to eat it.

How do you all manage to look after yourselves? My full time job is incredibly stressful at the moment on top of it all and something has to give but I don't know how without dropping people in it (think presentations at huge events, projects kicking off that I bid for/won, new direct reports starting imminently) but DD has to come first. My hair is literally falling out with stress. And I'm awake at 4am which isn't helping!

Also, what do you do about phones? I always had a parental app so I could monitor but the VPN started to mess up some of the apps which I'd marked as safe and I never managed to to get it sorted so was switched off ont he caveat I could check at will. But now she's very guarded, has changed password etc. and no coincidence with hindsight that this has all coincided with the ED taking control. it's confiscated at the moment and I'm going to say she can't have it back unless I know the password and Qustodio is back on, even if it means some stuff doesn't work. Interested to hear others approaches to phones though?

Appointment was with very nice, young female GP, obviously fresh out of training. She spent a good 30 mins with us and DD14 which was refreshing.

She did blind weigh, blood pressure, listened to her heart with stethoscope, felt her tummy and did various blood tests.

Asked her a lot of 'chatty questions' about school and hobbies at beginning which I was worried was wasting time but was clearly just trying to break ice

Made an appointment for us to come back and see her next week by which time we'll have blood test results. She said she was new to practice so would have to discuss with a senior colleague over referral paths to CAHMS and / or a dietician.

Asked her to keep a food diary for the next week which went down very very badly.

DD cried for about six hours when we got home and ended up sleeping with me for the night. Kep saying that we've made her feel worse, that she just needed more time, that she was working on her stress levels but now she felt 1000 times worse. But she did eat her dinner and a chocolate biscuit for pudding so that is something!