Teen Eating Disorders Thread 7

[Lottsbiffandsmudge]

We have managed to fill the previous Thread here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/eating_disorders/4471980-Teen-Eating-Disorders-Thread-6?page=40

So I thought I would start a new one.

Everyone supporting a young person with and ED is welcome here for advice (non professional but lived experience) and support.

Hoping everyone can find us...

Fairy thinking of you and totally understand how mentally difficult this illness is. You're not alone. When I'm feeling like it's all pointless and never ending, thinking of the lovely posters here that are going through the same thing really does help. I'm not on medication yet but I've had it in the past and would do again.

Thanks everyone who replied about dds food obsession/hoarding. I know I must put a stop to it. It's difficult because her life is so small now, half days (at the most) at college then home for lunch and rest. I've had to say no to days out, sleepovers, swimming, dancing, concerts, walks etc. It feels mean to say no to jammie dodgers, plus it's another bloody confrontation to add to the list. I know I must keep strong though. Thank you all.

@NanFlanders thanks Nan - fruit with variations seems to be the way forward for the alternate desserts. We've not had (much) fruit in the house for a year now as DD would gravitate towards it when it was calories she needed. Younger DS has loved this as there were never so many treats in the house until his sister developed AN. I am very nervous as we transition but understand that DD needs to slow her weight trajectory.

Thanks all for your help with GP support/getting referred to Ed CAHMS. Wish me luck at the appointment this afternoon

@D1ANA22 just out of curiosity and for ideas what are the higher calorie desserts?

also I don’t want to interfere at all with your D and the CAMHS but I am very reluctant to decrease nutrition as my d was what we all thought was recovered over 100%wfh and we reduced calories and it spiralled back down to %69 WFH i spoke to a different nurse and they said that it’s not good to do decaerse when they are still growing and also when they still have behaviours as the brain often lags 2 years behind. Also ideally don’t decrease in a noticeable way as then it sends the wrong message to them however I stress I don’t know about you D and every person is different I just wanted to share in case it helped. I should also mention my non an daughters all are slim and consume around 3000 calories a day if not more so I think i underestimate how much they need !

Hello all - GP who we saw with DD14 on Mon rang me to confirm that her blood tests were all fine. She's booked her in for an ECG at practice next week but says she's just being super cautious.

Said she rang the paeds ward to discuss DD's case and they are happy she is not in immediate physical danger and should be referred to CAMHS and that they should make preliminary contact within a week.

I have a really stupid question - are CAMHS trained to deal with EDs?? Or is more general stress / anxiety etc?? Should I have been pushing for a ED Specialist? Or are they part of CAMHS?? Thanks everyone.

Basil In my area it's the camhs ED team, there are therapists, nurses, dieticians, psychologists etc. They are very experienced with ED (sadly). They can also signpost you to other help in your area such as parent/carer support groups and can liase with school to advise on support in school, where and how your dd can eat, going part time etc.

I hope they're good in your area and you don't have to wait too long.

Thanks @Whyisthishappeningtous

@lovewinter thank you for your comments. This is when me and DH disagree, I want to push on and build up a weight buffer - DH believes that having such calorific desserts will not teach our DD normal eating (but we agree that having snacks at certain times of the day isn’t normal eating either).

I am very nervous about this, eating disorder nurse commented that we didn’t want DD to slip into obesity (she is far from that, still very slender - her strength and weight is in her lower body, she was an athlete before the AN). TBF the ED nurse said let’s do alternate desserts and see where her weight is in a month, we can revert to higher calorie desserts if we see a weight drop.

The higher calorie desserts we have include all sorts, trifle, profiteroles, cake with single cream, ice cream - quite a variety and DD will finish them all. She has a hot dessert with her school dinner - before the AN as a family we would not have a dessert with our evening meal except maybe at the weekend so I do get the reasoning for this - but I myself am still on the ‘lots of calories’ page.

D1 I would be very reluctant to start reducing any calories, I think it sends out a dangerous message between good/bad foods which is not helpful. Unless your dd is eating freely and eating everything and anything I would keep going.

We still do very calorific puddings and at the point start talking about maintaining dds weight I actually agreed to dd being discharged!

The advice on EDSUK fb page is to aim for 110% wfh at least to allow a decent buffer.

D1 the fat phobic comment from the nurse is actually pretty bad, did she say that infront of your dd? Any talk of slipping into obesity feeds directly into the sort of false beliefs that trigger EDs in the first place.

The reasons some people are obese are complex and thinking eating a pudding a night is enough to tip a teen into that bracket is absolutely ridiculous and dangerous talk imo.

All teens need a ton of calories and there is nothing inherently bad about 'puddings.'

Can you tell that comment wound me up 😉😂

Dd kicked off because I wouldn't go to the shop for a certain type of cereal bars because we have loads of others (literally hundreds of the bloody things, we could open our own shop). She refused pudding and has sent numerous texts...

You're an idiot. You don't care about me. You're ruining my life. I don't need you. I can get better on my own. You just make it worse. You don't want me to have any fun. And much more. They keep coming. In between texts she's stamping and slamming around.

It's a constant bombardment of how shit she thinks I am, even though my every waking moment is devoted to helping her.

All because of cereal bars. It just shows how ill she is.

Poor dh tried to help and I told him to fuck off. I've never said anything like that to him before 😢

Why it sounds like you've well and truly poked the beast. I would ignore the ED ranting at you, you've pissed it off which isn't a bad thing. I would reply to the texts with 'I'm sorry this is so hard for you, I love you very much' and leave it at that.

You're allowed to vent at your dh given the current circumstances hopefully he understands why.

I used to say if dd hasn't told me to fuck off today I'm obviously not trying hard enough....

@Girliefriendlikespuppies daughter wasn’t present at ED meetings - she doesn’t attend any ED meetings, it was pointless as she would clam up. I am going to push on to 110% - DH doesn’t agree but DD is slender and can certainly take the weight gain without it ‘showing’.

@Whyisthishappeningtous this is the hardest part and it is sadly normal. DD stomped around the house, the plaster on the stairs is cracked and she threw things, ripped up family photos from their frames and punched and kicked DH. But someone told me an analogy from the airforce, if you’re not getting flack then you are not near the target. Of course she would be pleasant if you gave her lettuce, but that’s the eating disorder talking. And my advice would be to not give in to the types and brands of food - you want her eating a variety even at this stage. It took a few evenings to wean DD from a small spoon - now it’s not an issue but these are the challenges to push through. It is relentless and exhausting - I cope watching mindless TV at the end of the day. It’s no life for them or for us but things do get better.

I agree @Girliefriendlikespuppies I think tbh it helps that am a massive baker and cook so since birth the children wrongly or rightly have always been offered cakes, traybakes and brownies etc they are good at self regulating though for example my husband and one of my twins have a massive sweet tooth and have at least two decent size cake type foods a day with cream and custard but are a healthy weight and in my husband case underweight. But most importantly all of them have a healthy neutral relationship with food for example my other daughters love crisps and cheese so often have more savoury snacks and we all eat fruit and veg and home cooked foods. And I know this may be controversial but I would rather my D was obses and happy not saying she is though !

Also @D1ANA22 I didn’t realise this but your D is likely to be a higher weight anyway as sporty children have a heavier Skelton so even if you had two girls that looked identical and had the same amount of muscle and fat the one who did sport would weigh more.

@Whyisthishappeningtous I am sorry about the messages I don’t have much advice as I get lots of those but I would echo what others have said and validate her feelings.

@D1ANA22 I am truly shocked that the ED nurse voiced out loud the obesity word. In front of an ED sufferer. It is frankly astounding.
Assuming she doesn't need to go higher with her weight (which inwoukd tbh)
I would just slowly reduce the portions of the usual things she is eating. So slightly less cake and cream, slightly less icecream etc not noticeably so but little by little. Until her weight stabilises. If she gains a bit more during that process I wouldn't worry.
And i wouldnt alternate puddings just maybe add fruitier ones in once or twice a week almost at random.
There is no way I would be wanting a regime that called one day 'healthy pudding day' and one day 'fattening pudding day' that nurse needs shooting.
My DD got to 110% and then I cut her evening smoothie down in calories to help her maintain. Thay was the beauty of hiding about 300 cals of double cream in it every night!
15m on from then she is now independently eating. But even now she still has blocks but they are improving. A team mate had a birthday and brought doughnuts to training last week and for the first time ever DD took one AND ATE IT. I nearly fainted. And this is only a month after she ate absolutely none of her brothers birthday cake.
It takes ages at a good weight to improve and I think that good weight is higher than most people think.
I think that for a recovered anorexic 'healthy eating' looks v different to other's. I will never label food good and bad again.

Sorry I massively cross posted. Glad your DD wasn't at the meeting!

@LittlePickleHead how was your appointment?

I'm sorry I'm not responding personally to anyone. Everything feels so huge and difficult right now. I have a question. Alongside the eating disorder, which feels like a beast that resides inside dd's head that I can't get at to fight, we are also fighting her anxiety many times a day. Do other people experience this? Is it the changes in the brain that is causing her anxiety -vthe constant meltdowns over EVERYTHING - or is this something that is commonly comorbid with an eating disorder, or perhaps even causing it?

Fairy the anxiety is normal sadly, it's a symptom of a low weight and will improve as your dds weight increases. If it feels like the anxiety is causing a major barrier to getting the food in then you could talk to your dds psychiatrist about medication for her. Olanzipine is the one that seems to help some kids.

D1 I completely agree with you, that nurse sounds completely unhelpful and it was at the point you're now at that I decided Camhs were not useful to dd or i anymore 😕 Tabitha Farrah talks a lot about fat phobia amongst health professionals. It's sadly v common and the Government's focus on reducing obesity does nothing to help our children.

Lots yay for the doughnut!!

The GP appointment was quite emotionally draining but laying it all out made me realise how much things have escalated for her since we first went in.

DD13 got the CAHMS referral but the GP still advised it can be a long wait. And DD has put on a bit of weight, so I wonder if this will mean a longer wait. Although the GP did seem focussed in the mental health and escalation to self harm. At least we're in the system now, and we have the psychiatrist appointment today.

I hope we get some immediate practical steps. DD self harmed again last night (third night in a row) and DH was out, I can't leave her for a second in the evening it feels and this is impossible with two kids. DS9 was in bed but I got DH to come home and I think that's that for socialising for a while.

I do feel like the self harm is a reaction to losing control of food/gaining weight. For those of you that have dealt with this, what did you do in the immediate moment when they felt like doing it (DD told me last night she was getting the urge and I still didn't manage to stop it!)

Little** I have no experience of the self harming, but I would say that at least if she is talking to you about it, you're in a better position. I know so many who self harm are completely secretive about it.

Little I think Myrtle has some practical steps when then they feel like self harming, a traffic light system. Lots of distractions and things like squeezing ice cubes can help. It is unfortunately common that when they lose control of the food side of things the self harm can increase.

It was definitely the ED service the GP has referred her to not general Camhs?

@LittlePickleHead great news on CAMHS referral. Self harm is v difficult. My DDs took the form of exercising obsessively. I think they see it as the only way to get release on their heads from the ED voice even if only briefly. @myrtleWilson is the best to ask but ice cubes in the hand, an elastic band on the wrist to flick are strategies that can help when she gets the urge. I also think controversially possibly that if the self harm is mild and out in the open it is preferable to starving to death. Or am I being horribly niave. I guess ice cubes abs elastic bands are still Self harm just v mild.
It's great news that she has put on a little weight. Whilst waiting for CAMHS keep the feeding going, this is what CAMHS will do anyway. In terms if the psychiatrist I would explore medication. Olanzapine really helped my DD it was NOT a magic bullet but took a tiny bit of the edge off.
@fairylights82 the anxiety is caused by the ED. Anxious kids may be more prone to an ED but the out bursts are all her ED reacting to you trying to fight it. In fact you saying you can't get at the ED isn't true you are getting to it already through your hard work evidenced by your DD is having these moments. Keep going! Try to think of her distress as a good thing as it means you are winning. I know that is so hard and I really suggest you look up distress tolerance as a technique FEAST (a Australian charity) have a good you tube video about it. We can't take on their distress but walk alongside them. We also can't fix the distress which as a parent is vv hard.
On the theme of parental guilt some FB memories of my DD playing hockey 2 years ago popped up today. She looks so thin and I cannot believe I hadn't even realised at this point something was wrong. It was Dec before I did anything. Even though we are through this illness (barring relapse) such moments make you realise how much there still is to process.

Hello All, I have joined this thread as I am in need of help for my 12 yo DD.

She says she doesn't like eating. Over the past year has cut out her lunches and now breakfasts.

I am stopping her competitive sport now and PE lessons now.

What else would you recommend I do please? I saw someone suggest, in thread 6, to create a meal plan with my DD, 3 meals and 3 snacks a day, that sounds sensible.

We have school SEN support and a weekly hourly chat.