Teen Eating Disorders Thread 7

[Lottsbiffandsmudge]

We have managed to fill the previous Thread here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/eating_disorders/4471980-Teen-Eating-Disorders-Thread-6?page=40

So I thought I would start a new one.

Everyone supporting a young person with and ED is welcome here for advice (non professional but lived experience) and support.

Hoping everyone can find us...

@SwattyPie - am sorry you've found yourself here but I'm glad you've found us here as we know exactly what you're going through. The early days are a bewildering maelstrom of emotions - anger, guilt, frustration, fear, worry - they are all completely normal (as normal as life with an ED gets...) I second everything the wise @D1ANA22 has said - and I'd draw attention to setting a time limit for meals and snacks - it felt wrong for me at the beginning to not give DD all the time she needed to eat her meal. But it was actually playing into the ED's hand - in reality it was giving the anorexia all the time in the world to be the dominant voice in her world. Do stick to the time limits and then immediately after the meal has finished (one way or another) do a 'distraction' - play a game that requires thinking- UNO or something, go for a drive/walk etc - it creates space away from the ED which is really important - the ED wants to take all the space and you need to be artful in snatching space back...

@lovewinter - have all the moans you need and for what its worth, I've been in awe across all 7 threads of those of you who are managing this hellish experience with other children as well. I doff my cap to you everyday for getting up and getting through

Thanks everyone. Some really good advice. I think we're all in shock, and I completely empathize with the notion of feeling awful for siblings, especially when they are trying so hard to be "good" as they don't want to add anything else to the mix. It's heartbreaking.

@SwattyPie welcome and sorry you are here.... how old is your DD?
The first weeks are the worst. A toxic mixture of guilt, disbelief, anger and bewilderment. And it takes a while to adjust to your world shrinking to those 6 meals a day.
What helped me is imaging every mouthful moving us closer to recovery. And also remembering that it is not you or food making your DD upset but the ED. The ED is to blame.
@lovewinter I had much the same feelings about my other 2 boys who I felt I horribly neglected. I only had just about enough emotional energy for DDs illness and to keep myself sane (and not always enough for that tbh). If it helps today I went on a walk with DS2 (who was in his GCSE year when it all kicked off) and we discussed his sister's illness and he bears no grudge about it. I was frank about what it took out of me and what I felt it robbed him of but he was quite sanguine. Our relationship is fine. Same for DS1 who was in year 12.
And they saw some awful things including DS2 talking his sister off a window ledge they day she smashed my oven up as I was hysterical.
DS1 has said he would give that attention up again because he got his sister back. They both missed her as she disappeared into her ED world.
I also think it was worth 1 day of poor eating so your other DDs got some time. It's one day in a very long battle. You go again tomorrow.

Hi swatty I can remember that exact same feeling after we saw Camhs the first time. The way I did was to literally say to dd this is what is going to happen. I had to stop working and spent every min focused on getting the food in. I gradually built up quantities and added double cream and butter to everything she ate to maximise the calorie value.

It was absolutely soul destroying and hell for months but I could see small glimpses of progress which made it easier to keep going.

We're over two years in now and in a much better place although not totally ED free sadly. Had an interesting conversation with dd earlier where she talked about being on holiday when she was very ill. She was talking about an (ill advised) mini break I took her on at the start of the ED when I knew there was a problem but hadn't got to grips with what to do at all.

It was interesting that she recognised how unwell she was and this is the first time she has actually acknowledged her illness iyswim.

She's actually been lovely today, really good company and we've had lots of normal chats. Has also eaten well as well, she asked for toad in the hole for dinner and ate a big portion of it. Had sweets and smarties for pudding.

For those of you still in the black hole at the start of the illness it does get better ❤️‍🩹 just one mouthful at a time.

Hi can I get your options on my DDs eating habits?

She's 13. Been like this for as long as I can remember. Always very picky. Never liked liquid or wet foods. Everything had to be separated.

Now she's 13 and lives off chips and pepperoni pizza. She will eat mcdonalds chips and nuggets. Chippy chips and dabs. Occasionally she will eat a hotdog.

She won't eat with us, stands in the kitchen. Makes excuses to avoid food (need the toilet etc...)

She lives off chocolate bread, croissants, waffles, brioche buns and will ea any crisps and sweets, ice-cream etc..

But real food. Nope.

The GP just kept saying as long as she's eating she's fine. She will grown out of it.

She has vitamins.

But I'm considering asking for a referral or something to a dietician or something. I can't cope with it anymore. She gets so mad over food

Hi way I'm inclined to agree with your GP, it sounds more like extreme fussiness than an ED as long as the food is definitely going in? There is an ED called ARFID which you could look up to see if that fits.

As long as the calories are going in and she's not losing weight I wouldn't worry too much.

Hello everyone - just one week in for us, we have a second GP appt after school which was planned last week. DD14 is terrified of going back and keeps asking me if they will weigh her again - I have no idea tbh if they will after just one week.

We haven't been contacted by CAMHS yet and DD has already started with the campaign that she will not go and talk to anyone, she hates 'therapists' and 'therapy' - that it will be pointless and rubbish and actually make her feel worse. Having read through these threads I know that it's 50: 50 chance really whether the CAMHS is a help or a hindrance but I feel we should at least try first and see...

On the upside she has made a huge effort to eat more this - relatively speaking, for her. Even though her stomach has been swelling up and painful with the shock of the extra food at times. DH says as long as she's eating more everything will be great and she will put on weight and get better.

However, I'm not convinced that (even for a very dinky person who was 4 ft 11 and a size 6 when they were 'healthy' and 'sporty' a year ago), that this amount of food is going to cut it. That we will need to gradually more and more. DH says No no, the more we bang on about it, the more annoyed and distressed she'll get, just leave her alone if she's eating 'more'.

We were asked to keep a food diary this week. Here's an example of a day I was really really pleased with and she was in a good mood and trying really hard to eat (but is it enough??):

Breakfast: half bread bun with 2 slices grilled halloumi, 1 hash brown, fried mushrooms and a cup of tea

Snack: Pumpkin spice latte at Starbucks (no cream) and half a blondie

Lunch: Half carton Covent garden soup, 4 Gosh cauliflower bites, 1 Ferreo Rocher

Dinner: 2 slices of homemade pizza with salad (no dressing), followed by a brownie with sliced strawberries

I've looked at the CAMHS menus and this is still not nearly enough, right??

But DH says she is small and she's stopped most of her physical activity so that will definitely make a difference in her calorie deficit now. She was doing SEVEN hours a week of sport (I know, I know) a week plus PE at school - she's now exempt from PE and the plan is that she does just one or two hours a week of her sport just to see her friends and hopefully have fun. We'll have to play it by ear though obviously....

Although DD is much better than she was - back in school, largely complying with meal plan, actually ate (fat-free yoghurt) in a Premier Inn restaurant yesterday- I am really struggling atm. Keep bursting into tears at the smallest thing. Absolutely screamed at dh, when he said something that triggered her, so she stormed off and refused dessert, and screamed at DD, when she refused juice this morning. (This isn't like me - I'm usually very calm). Went to inlaws yesterday for the first time in a month and tears kept running down my face over dinner, even though I was talking normally. DH suggested this morning that I get a B&B for a couple of nights to rally myself. I'm worried though that my absence might make DD feel guilty and go downhill again. But I feel I'm making things worse being here and crying all the time.

Should add, I've been worried since she lost a kilo over a week while ostensibly complying - DD reckons it's because she's doing more, but I'm worried she is not eating at school

@NanFlanders That sounds awful and very familiar (the crying out of 'nowhere' bit - I know you have been dealing with ED stress much longer than me)

Without sounding like a patronising moo, could perimenopause also be exacerbating your emotional resilience? I don't know how old you are but I'm 43 and know for a fact that own capacity to cope (just with the laundry / booking the car into the garage let alone an ED) takes a nose dive in the second half of my cycle now that my hormone levels are starting to fluctuate so wildly....

@basilbrush I'm 55, so out of the other side, thankfully! (That does bring back memories though - hang on in there!). I have just booked a B&B for 2 nights. Not sure it's the right thing, but I'm concerned about tipping over into depression, (which I've had a few times before) and my poor DH having to deal with two of us....

@NanFlanders I think you absolutely have done the right thing!

@basilbrush - Looking at what your DD ate - that's great variety and certainly contains a number of fear foods (pizza etc.) that my DD wouldn't touch with a barge pole all this time later. Well done you! Could you do something like a Belvita or a couple of biscuits with some warm milk just before bedtime maybe?

Thanks!

basil Your dh is me and my dh a few months ago. We just assumed she could stop sport and eat more and normal life would just click into place. Maybe it does happen for some of them but I think once they're already very underweight it's a much more tricky process. You and dh really must get on the same page. In our case I've taken over dds care and dh is very much in the background as a support service. It helps to know he's there and I call on him if necessary but I'm the one that is really in her head with her understanding exactly what she needs. He never contradicts me now. He's there for me to cry on, he cleans up, he drives dd around, and he keeps out of the way when asked.

looking at your dds food it's not enough but she's got a good variety there that you can build on. Great to see some carbs and cheese and the pizza is excellent. You can add some fats where possible, a few sprays of olive oil on hash brown, halloumi and pizza (I have filled a frylight bottle with olive oil and spray as much of dds food as I can), some cream or butter in the soup, extra cheese on the pizza. I buy mild cheese so dd doesn't detect it too much. Pasta and curry dishes is where I get most calories in.

The camhs appointments are really hard for them. Incentives can help. Plan something nice for afterwards, looks like she enjoys Starbucks so maybe a visit afterwards as a treat.

NanFlanders You are so not alone. My mental health has taken a big hit. We have good and bad days (thankfully) so I still have times where I can see the good in life. I would chat to the gp. I'm waiting for mine to call me today. It's difficult because I know I'm not depressed but it's the situation that makes me feel depressed, when it's a bad day. Today dd has happily gone to college and I'm watching a crappy hallmark movie eating chocolate and feeling pretty great. Just hoping she'll still be happy when I collect her at lunch.

Having a break is essential I think, when it gets to the point where you're finding it too much. Can you pre prepare some of dds food and write her some little notes of encouragement so she still feels the support from you?

@Whyisthishappeningtous Thanks. I've already pre-prepared everything I can and left DH a comprehensive meal plan. Good idea on the notes. I usually Whatsapp her a pic of pre-ED good times (old birthday parties etc.) every day and an inspirational (hopefully!) quote, but will write some little notes for her lunchbox - nice idea.

@NanFlanders this would worry me. Losing 1kg is v difficult with just increased activity. I hate to say it but it would feel to me like you are right and she is not eating at school.
A quick rule of thumb is that to gain 0.5kg a week they need to eat an roughly an excess of 500 cals a day over their base requirement (after factoring in activity levels) for 1kg its 1000 cals a day. This is approximate but worked for us.
Conversely to lose weight I assume the reverse is true. So increased activity is v unlikely to account for a while 1kg loss.

I am sure you dont want to hear that but if another loss happens next week I'd be insisting she eats lunch and snacks at shcool with supervision.
I would have your break (great idea BTW!) and tackle it when yoj get back.

It's great your DD is increasing the amounts she eats. Your DH is not helping though. She won't gain weight on these levels. I haven't caloried that list out but for a moderately active teen girl (and she is doing some sport) the average need is c2200 cals a day. Plus some to gain weight (see my post above).
It's a lot of calories hence why 3 meals and 3 snacks building the calorie density up- some good suggestions on how to do that already. I would also add in the 3rd snack before bed. My DD had a smoothie which was easy to get down and v calorific (base 400 with cream 700). 100ml ff milk, 100g ff greek yog, 40g oats, a banana, some berries, 2tsp honey. I used to add 50ml d cream and reduce the milk. But add cream after its whisked or it goes v thick! She clearly likes milky drinks so this could help.

Hi Nan I'm sorry to hear you're struggling so much, it sounds like you might have PTSD? It's very common for parents of children with EDs to have this type of stress response several months down the line. Could you afford counselling/therapy for yourself?

I hate to say it but I agree with lots that it sounds like she's not eating at college. Can you arrange supervision for snacks/lunch? That's a big loss and I'd be threatening her with being pulled out of college unless unless you see a decent gain. From what I can remember (I'm definitely peri menopausal my memory is absolutely shocking at the moment!) your dd is still quite early days at being allowed some freedom and it might be a case of too much to soon unfortunately.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies I've just started back at work, so supervision would be difficult, though I guess not impossible between DH and myself. I tried to stop her going to school until she had drunk her juice this morning, but she just said we couldn't stop her - and - short of locking her in, I can't see that we can really...

Hi everyone,
I haven’t posted for a while, felt guilty that I was moaning about my own situation too much and was not able to help anyone else.

Quick recap: dd was admitted into hospital a year ago following a suicide attempt (her third). She was then referred to the camhs crisis team who noticed she was very underweight and diagnosed her with an ED. She was immediately put on weight restoration plan and regained 12% wfh within 6 weeks (from 74% to 86%). However she has never gained any more than that and has fluctuated between 83% and 86% ever since.
She is non responsive in her CAMHS sessions and just ignores them or curls up into a ball, sometimes scratches her arms/hands. This coupled with her not gaining any more weight means they now want to discharge her. I’m really not happy about this, she is still not well and is on 100mg sertraline prescribed by camhs which they have said will also stop when she is discharged. This terrifies me, although she is still depressed she is far better on the medication than she was before and is able to attend college and work part time as well as socialise occasionally.

It’s a real chicken and egg situation as to whether the ED stems from the depression or vice versa. She is not concerned with gaining weight, just doesn’t want to eat. Will eat high calorie foods as much as low calorie. I know that she stops eating when she is depressed and that she gets stomach pains and nausea when she is anxious (and has done from a very young age, at least from 5 or 6 years old). However she has had issues with food from babyhood starting when she refused all milk for over 72 hours at 5 months old so started weaning on advice of GP but then wouldn’t eat solids at all until 13 months and then would only eat tiny amounts of particular foods. This continued throughout childhood with her having certain foods she would eat and a tiny appetite. By the end of primary school she was eating a wide range of foods (with some strong dislikes) but still only tiny amounts and has always been tiny and underweight. At her current weight (45 kg at 160cm and 16 years 4 months if anyone can work out wfh, camhs haven’t weighed her for a month) she looks ok, obviously slim but not unhealthily so, so I’m not too worried about her weight itself, I just want her to eat! Her list of dislikes is longer by the day, she’ll no longer eat hummus or avocado or eggs which is basically most of the lunchtime options gone, she’ll still eat cheese but not always, she’s never eaten yoghurt or milk…doesn’t eat cereal or bread…every day what to feed her is as big a headache as to whether she’ll actually eat it!

sorry this was not a quick recap at all and I’m not really sure what the point of my post is other than I need to get it out of my head!

I'm not in any position to offer advice to anyone, but just wanted to say thank you all for your info and also, god this is horrible. Does anyone know how to actually calculate WFH at home? Is there some magic formula? Not that I'm weighing her, but I'm obsessed with how much she needs to put on as restorative weight. She's got an official weigh in later this week so I guess they'll tell me then. Sigh.

Hi All,.sorry to hear about your situations and what you are going through.

Thank you for the advice you gave me last week. I spoke to the DR again today and she is going to register DD with the ED team (I might have misheard this). Hoping we might get offered some specialist ED counselling at some point from this. In meantime, myself and DH are also starting to get some individually, as we have our own issues.

I am going to take her in and get her BP, bloods, height and weight measured, she won't weigh herself for me at home.

She is not eating lunch on school days, but we are in full on feeding mode at breakfast, after school and evening, as much as can. We wonder if DD has Arfid type.of ED as she says she doesn't feel hungry and it feels like a control thing and cry for help. We are running with tough love, with more success some days than others. Saying this, DD does seem perkier with more food in her, so that is good. Focussing one day at a time.

Have managed to find her a private counsellor, who works in a school normally. DD is not impressed with the idea, we shall see how that goes. Fingers crossed.

Have given up job as the job was stressful and DD ED issue on top, the two together were finishing me off.

Moomarre, it sounds like you are in a v.tricky situation with your DD, thinking of you. I just went to a well known cheaper supermarket and bought lots of unhealthy foods (including sausages, bacon, pepperoni, milkshakes, cake, biscuits, apple juice, pizza, lemon meringue pie....). DH made french toast with bacon on the side this morning for breakfast. I tried suggesting we write a weekly meal plan last week - DD refused. I am now just saying 'x or y for breakfast tomorrow?'. Just two options. Saying this I appreciate that they are all different, I hope you find a way through this soon.

My daughter systematically cut out foods over this past year, I let that go. Then she cut out lunch, then started trying to cut out breakfast over the past month. It is all v.hard to get our heads around.

PS I am looking forward to weighing my DD (at Drs by nurse), so we know where we are and then whether her weight is getting dangerously low.