Teen Eating Disorders Thread 4

[SoTiredNeedHoliday]

Starting a new thread, no 3 is full

Monday evenings, starting 4/10. It sounds brilliant to be honest, I’ve already had a resource pack emailed to me. Sounds pretty intensive too. I’ve really felt like I’m floundering since we left the private therapist and let camhs take over. The support hasn’t been the same so I’m hoping this will help. X

@DarkBlueEyes my DD12 has been on a paediatric ward for a month now. I'm there all day and her dad goes in the evening. It's exhausting and I couldn't do it 24/7 particularly as her 15 y.o. sister also needs a parent. I'm divorced from their Dad and it is just the three of us at home. DD's food refusal was absolute before admission and hasn't improved in the general hospital so its looking like a specialist unit when there's a bed available. It sounds like you were able to get some food but not enough into your DD prior to admission so hopefully your stay will be much shorter and more successful. I've been told that stays are generally a week or two so my DD's experience is not typical. Thinking of you, this is all so horrible

@DarkBlueEyes I'm so glad you are getting the help you need. Yay!
I hope DD is seeing that hospital is somewhere she doesn't want to be! I did stay over with DD most nights but I think you're right not to make her feel too comfortable and let her see what its like to be there without you.
The benefit of being there is you can see that the nurses are making her eat or if not giving her supplement or tube feeding.

That's a brilliant idea @myrtleWilson about having the resources in the opening post of the next thread. Not that I'm useful in this as I find these pages to be my most useful go-to place.

It's interesting seeing other people's meal plans/goals. They're incredibly different to DD's. She's into 'healthy' food (obviously the only unhealthy food for her is not enough of it) and wouldn't have juice, cake, puddings etc. I used to try to make her but one of the things we get from the ruinously expensive clinic is a bespoke meal plan that she works out with a nutritionist weekly. The nutritionist is pretty flexible about including things like plant milks and avoiding sweet things, much to my surprise.

So if anyone wants a 'healthy' non sugar 2500 meal plan, send me a private message and send it to you. It is incredibly precise and prescriptive which my husband finds useful.

@cheerup your username is very appropriate. DD was in for 10 days (1 week in full then phased return home) and it felt forever. I hope things work out for you.

Will that not just store up problems for the future valley? Do they think if she gains weight then she'll be in a better place to start tackling fear foods? I'd consider that approach much the same as bettys dd wanting to be vegan, it's just another form of restriction. Is your dd gaining weight on the plan?

I've taken the opposite approach and pushed all the typically 'unhealthy' foods 😬 we had a Dominos for dinner tonight and pudding was a tub of Ben & Jerry's.

Dd didn't have a great day today, it was an inset day and she'd arranged to meet friends in town. I think it ended up being a bigger group than she expected and they were all mucking about, dd to her credit just walked away and came home. She's been low ever since though 😕

Hope you're okay dark, I meant to say I'd definitely leave dd for a nights kip. I'd view it as a chance to catch up on some sleep and start building myself up for when she comes home.

@DarkBlueEyes have you been staying over?

@Valleyofthedollymix. I’d really like to see you meal plan please, thanks for the offer of sharing.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies - my husband says that he believes the anorexia began months ago when DD suddenly decided she only wanted to eat healthy food. She gave up sweets, crisps, takeaways. I do think her veganism is a symptom of the AN. She became vegetarian in January of this year and a few months later she said she wanted to become vegan. By this time I was starting to become concerned as she had lost weight (not hugely) and was restricting what she ate.
We had a bad day yesterday. Poor DD had a complete meltdown when I took her morning snack. It was a nesquik milkshake with cows milk and an alpen bar. She insisted she wanted an Alpen bar and a scotch pancake with jam.

She screamed and cried all morning, she also hit herself. She doesn’t feel as though she’s getting any support from the ED nurse and desperately wants someone to talk to that isn’t me or her dad.
Once she had let it all out she picked up in the afternoon. She’s so incredibly depressed. She misses her friends and school. She sees a couple of friends but not her wider school friends.

A friend of mine dropped a jigsaw puzzle off for her and that’s kept her really busy.

I just feel that we’re going backwards with it all.

Betty jigsaws were one of the main things to keep dd going, esp when I was off with her and we did them together. They're so good for mindfulness IMO.

betty that sounds really tough - your poor Dd. Finding someone to talk to outside of immediate family is so important. Does your Camhs offer IHT at all - we had it, thought it was a bit rubbish to begin with but after a while it/they found the right interventions for DD.

We've gone backwards definitely. Lots of crying, return of her hallucinations, increase in self harm. I had to pick her up early from school.

Then I lost it completely with her. She was annoyed about snack and tried to pin it on us and blithely said we weren't helping. Well, I exploded and roared at her (swearing too which I don't do). She was in shock, my voice was hoarse. Not my finest hour.

We made it through the day and at 4am this morning she called her Dad up to her room and said she wanted to go back on a proper meal plan. Current way clearly isn't working and she's worried that is taking full control will lead to anorexia hitting back via compulsive exercising. This seems a good way forward and would be on understanding that all the quasi anorexia adjacent snacks and adjustments she's made (looking at you deliciously Ella and chickpea crisp city) are gone. She's found one from NHS Bristol but I wouldn't mind having a look at yours @Valleyofthedollymix

Whilst my explosion was not good I do wonder whether the out of character-ness of it made her pause for a moment and wonder what on earth is happening to us all??

She has a little bruise on her eye. I feel so sad for her. She misses her sister as well.
I was so touched by the puzzle, I hadn’t even thought of something like that. It has a horse scene and she loves it. She’s usually very creative, she crochets and makes jewellery but she says she just can’t focus on any of that anymore.

I’m going to email the therapist we saw privately before camhs became involved to see if she can off sessions just for DD. She was lovely and we both seemed to click with her, she was really supportive and DD liked her. I wish we hadn’t stopped. I know the ED team are stretched but even though I’ve stressed how depressed DD is becoming and how she’s desperate for school nothing seems to be listened to. I’ve asked for more support with the meal plan and my emails just get ignored. We have been left with a pretty unrealistic meal plan and a one hour teams call a week. The teams call is usually cut short by 15 minutes and the whole time it’s negative.

I completely see what you're saying @Girliefriendlikespuppies but I'm slightly exaggerating, there are sugary/less healthy options given (that she does very occasionally choose). It can be argued that addictive types like anorexics can get hooked on sugar, which is what happened to DD's cousin who recovered from anorexia only to develop binge eating and bulimia. If DD follows the plan, she gains weight and I think there is something to be said (for her) to associate eating enough for weight gain with eating in a balanced way without highs and lows.

I'll send it to those that have asked for it. Warning, we have a lot of nut butter! Nutcessity is v expensive but v delicious.

The therapist we originally saw took into account DDs vegetarianism and asked her about the things she likes. The meal plan we’re attempting to stick to now, from camhs is described as being for an active lifestyle but non of the suggested food is what DD would have eaten before the ED. Toast, Crumpets, maltloaf, pakora, muffins, mince pie, choc ice. It’s very frustrating for us all.

Are we the only ones not offered camhs? I did ask but was told that the weight gain needed to be first. Then told that because she's 17 and a half, by the time she got to the top of the waiting list she'll be an adult and can't access it. Support from the nhs has been rubbish. We get a fortnightly health check off about 20 minutes. Such a shame as the hospital were great with her when she was on the ward.

Thank you for the meal plan valley. The one noticeable different to what dd eats is the essential fats. This is our greatest battle to overcome and one of the things I guess that is holding her periods back from restarting.

I think that there's probably a spectrum around vegetarianism/veganism and eating disorders. My Dd genuinely prefers chicken/fish to red meat and I'm happy to accommodate that. She also really likes tofu and as a teen she also appears to have an innate love of a Buddha bowl 😂.

However, I think her choice of snacks of lentil crisps, protein balls et al are definitely deliberate choices of restriction (except in her head I think she genuinely has convinced herself they are real preferences)

Obviously am not suggesting chicken/fish are akin to vegetarianism but trying clumsily to say there are, in everyone of us, preferences that predate the ED but the ED seeks to use this preferences as an opportunity to stake its ground and stretch preferences to breaking point - like rolling dough too thinly and it tears. Once there's a tear the ED tries its hardest not to let us patch up the dough...

@Bettybarkalot123 sorry you’re DD is feeling so down. But just to say that it’s a fair assumption to Mahdi that it’s because she isn’t able to go to school but my DD is at school and is still so very down and desperately sad. Unfortunately I think it’s a symptom of the ED.

I really would see if you could start back with your private therapist if you can and just keep it quiet from CAHM’s? That is what we do and DD benefits far more from the therapist sessions then she does with her fortnightly sessions with the care-coordinator. We are purely just going through the motions there.

@myrtleWilson ahhh your poor DD having a downward turn. It serves as a stark reminder that however well we think we are doing on our journeys that we are not out of the woods yet. It still sounds like your DD is able to ask for help and admit that she’s struggling which i think is really good and shows that she doesn’t want to give in to the ED.

With regards to meal-plans I don’t know how I could get the weight on DD if it wasn’t for the animal fats. We allow her a couple of evening meals of “healthier options” that I know she prefers which will usually consist of fish with new potatoes or maybe noodles and veg. But then we also insist on other meals like steak & chips, some kind of creamy pasta dish or risotto. All these meals are far higher calories and tend to balance out her lighter options. She would never chose red meat off her own back now as she knows they are fattier and more calorific. Whereas pre ED steak with dauphinois and a pepper sauce would probably have been one of her favourite meals!

It's interesting that you all stick to the meal plans, I think I went rogue quite early on 😬 I sort of devised my own meal plan around what I knew dd would eat and how many calories I could realistically add to everything. Dd has been pescatarian since she was 10yo and I'm happy to accommodate that as we're not a family of big meat eaters. I aimed for 2500-3000 calories a day, the majority of those being from animal fats (butter and double cream.)

Betty I'm sorry you had a hard day, I to am not sure your dd sounds ready for school tbh 😕 try and see the screaming and distressed behaviour as a good thing, you can't slay the ED beast without seeing it. If the ED is shouting it means it knows it's not in control anymore. My dd found the paint by number kits relaxing in the early days, also the sequin art ones.

Valley you mentioned the sugar addiction theory before, was that said in front of dd? It's the sort of thing that an ED would absolutely lap up and I remain unconvinced it's useful in terms of treatment and recovery.

Myrtle I think most of us parents have a degree of PTSD from dealing with this, I think all of us here would agree our own mental health has taken a battering because of our child's illness. Which may be why you were particularly triggered by your dds comment. We're only human, don't feel bad about it. I agree that you and your DH regaining control is the way to go.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies yeah that’s what we said. There are only three weeks until half term now and then they have two weeks off. She has accepted that she won’t be back to school before then but we will work hard and try to get her weight up and possibly back part time after half term. It’s a goal and something for her to aim towards.

As hard as it is, I do feel it’s a good thing that she was screaming and shouting.. she needed to get it out and surprisingly she ate well afterwards and was calm all afternoon and evening.

@Valleyofthedollymix thanks for the meal plan, I’m going to have a good look tonight and do some meal/snack planning.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies god no, I'd be furious if DD thought there was any danger of her developing a sugar addiction. No it was mentioned privately when I asked for the addition of more 'unhealthy' options.

While teen girls with eating disorders share many behaviours and traits (which is why this board is such a comfort), they're also all individuals. DD won't have lots of cream though she'll have it recipes and mash etc. What I like about her meal plan is that she finds it relatively easy to follow and causes much less stress. The NHS one just didn't bear any resemblance to what she ate before the ED. God if she'd have Nutella pancakes and a cream smoothie, you can bet I'd be giving it to her!

I also think, at the risk of sounding disordered myself, that eating lots of sugar doesn't do great things to my mood. If I had to put on weight I'd probably start off with some delicious cinnamon buns but soon tire of the way they make me feel depleted.

@myrtleWilson completely agree re vegetarianism and ED. It's such a socially acceptable way to cut out a whole food group. On the other hand, I do welcome the chance to force the rest of my carnivorous family to eat less meat.

@NCTDN - the meal plan's emphasis on 'essential fats' is quite canny (although a friend did pedantically point out that cream, cream cheese aren't essential fats but whatever). I think it's unfortunate that the word for being overweight and the word for the food stuff with lots of calories is the same one.

@Bettybarkalot123 I've been completely stewing about that nurse saying to you that your daughter was running at an 15% 'energy deficit' in comparison to other girls at 85% WFH. What a piece of bs, coming from a medical professional. Really illogical crap.

I'm not saying she doesn't need to put on weight, obviously they all do, but it's crazy to be suggesting that all other girls are at 100%. What about those at 110% - do they have more energy? Does Jessica Ennis have a deficit because she weighs a good 15 kilos less than me?

Yeah agreed they're all individuals valley but still think keeping the ED happy by giving it the healthy options is unlikely to be useful longer term. You absolutely have to go with what you feel is right however if a nutritionist told me that about sugar addiction and teens with an ED I would assume they had their own food issues and bias....

That said there is something to be said about finding a way of keeping the stress levels manageable whilst finding opportunities to chip away at the ED thoughts and fears. I had to admit defeat on the snacks with my dd which the die hard FBTers would say should never happen. I knew that I could push the calorie content of her main meals to compensate and for us that worked.

I've also found that she did get to weight whereby a lot of her fear foods did suddenly seem to lose their power, around 99% wfh (which I'd say is roughly 6% less than where my dd would normally sit on the 75th centile) which shows that weight gain is sometimes all that's needed.

For example I've just given her Pringles with her lunch, it's the first time in over 18 months she's been faced with them. She looked at them and then at me doubtfully and said 'I have to eat these?'

Absolutely yes you do.

As if by magic she ate the lot 😁

I think we're slightly talking at cross purposes here. She does eat non 'healthy' things, but it's not where her calories are mainly coming from. And sugar isn't good for any of us, we know that, I especially do since I really crave it more than savoury things.

It wasn't actually the nutritionist who said the thing about anorexics sometimes developing a sugar addition, it was a therapist and I remembered it just because it is exactly what happened in my small sample of relatives with ED. Doesn't mean it's common or likely, but they said it happens and I've seen it happen.

As I say, I'd love for her to put on weight however it most easily happened. However, I don't have an issue with a healthy diet in general and, for her, I think will be most sustainable long term. The rapid weight gain in lockdown that triggered the ED was caused by bored eating of family packs of Dairy Milk etc. I don't want her freaking out again.

We are chipping away at fear foods - she's had a pecan iced thingie from Starbucks today, we've got a family lunch tomorrow where she'll have a dessert etc.

God I sound really defensive!

@Valleyofthedollymix yes I was annoyed about that too. Her exact statement was..

“She will be functioning at 15%+ deficit to her peers of “normal” weight for height. Is this fair?”