Adult eating disorders support

[thesootherfairy]

Hi
Was inspired by the teen thread. Looks really supportive and was wondering if anyone else would like an adult support thread?

I'm 47. Have young pre-teen DC, a DH and a family cat. I work full time self employed. But I've had anorexia since I was 12. Had no help (not well known about back then so no help offered). Recently been diagnosed with anorexia.

Now face a 2 year wait for treatment.

And you?

I’ve had anorexia since I was 17 and spent 6 months in hospital when I was19. Since then I’ve struggled and a big relapse last year which I’m trying to get over

@Annabelle96 sorry to hear about your relapse. How are you doing? Managing your illness with the responsibilities of adult life is very different from a teenage experience.

Hello @Annabelle96 and welcome. Sorry you find yourself here.

I'm still trying here. It's hard therapy is hard. Im managing meals. Not sure the therapy is going so well. But then how do you tell if it is?

Thanks both. I think it’s so much harder as an adult, I can’t just give into it now as I have responsibilities. I’m constantly battling the anorexia voice and the voice that says I can’t give in. It’s hard

@Annabelle96 do you work and have kids? For me, this is both protective in keeping a sense of normality and purpose but also takes away the space to focus on me and it is exhausting as I push through the day-to-day without energy. The depression and lack of energy saps any pleasure and I struggle with working memory-remembering what I'm doing takes effort. I hope this isn't too negative a reply. I hope you have a positive day. The sun is shining

Yeah I work and have a daughter and they are my motivation to not fully give in, but it makes working and being a mum so much harder when I’m constantly battling the anorexic voice in my head

Hey 👋 so I've been lurking here a while and guess I have a question I'd love your thoughts on.
About me: currently 37. Eating issues since 13-ish. Always restrictive. Inpatient treatment at 17 for anorexia. Complied and gained weight so discharged. Lost it all again quite quickly. But desperate to leave home and go to uni so gained enough to make this possible. Then I'd say I've been in an endless cycle of atypical anorexia in terms of having patches of disordered eating with weight loss, but never enough to be classified as anorexic. Anyway, from about 33-36 I felt genuinely free from it all. In retrospect I think this subconsciously was due to 2 pregnancies and breastfeeding - so feeling like my body was not mine exactly, but had to be fuelled to sustain other peoples lives. I remember feeling very happy, and genuinely not caring that my body shape was different- I just thought my body was amazing for producing humans and their food! Anyway, to my point. I reached the stage, maybe when my second child was about 1.5, that I had the thought "I should probably be a bit healthier"- at this point this was genuinely to do with health and wanting to be as healthy as possible for my children. A normal parental thought I would have thought. And I knew I needed to introduce a few healthier habits like making sure I got enough fruit and veg etc. I hadn't been weighing myself in all this time, but did at this point and my bmi was 23.7. Once I thought about it and was out of the post pregnancy euphoria I did think I was a bit of an odd shape (big post baby tummy- but wasn't overly bothered about it). My plan was to add in more fruit and veg and lose a few pounds. This is how it started. Then I started just reading up on what constituted "healthy" these days, and came across Michael Mosley and intermittent fasting/cutting down on sugar and starchy refined carbs/Mediterranean diet. I followed this, as I really trust Michael Mosley as he seems scientific in his approach. The weight dropped off, which was amazing at first. But over about 6 months I lost enough weight to take my bmi down to 19.1. I noticed the old anorexic thoughts creeping back in. At Christmas I basically had a 7 day binge. Post Christmas I panicked a bit as I'd gained about 4Ibs in 7 days. But over the months decided I hadn't felt super healthy at that weight. So I went back to the drawing board about the best way to be healthy and became immersed in veganism (was already veggie for most of my life). I started using the "daily dozen" app to try and get enough of all nutrients on a daily basis. This felt good for a while. Until I realised my weight was slowly creeping up and I was feeling out of control of it. So recently I've brought back the intermittent fasting, and have started fasting 2 days a week (as suggested by Michael mosleys 5:2 diet). This has been very effective and I lost 3Ibs in 3 days (BMI now 19.6 - so perfectly healthy atm). Started counting calories etc (as suggested on this diet) on both the fasting and non-fasting days. Again, I'm noticing all the anorexic thoughts creeping back in. At least I think they are disordered. This is my confusion! Am I being disordered? Or is this actually a good way to eat and live? Plenty of people are eating this way and it's considered a healthy lifestyle. There's a doctor (MM) telling us this is a good way to live. On the one hand I'm worried I'm just using all these diets as a cover up for my ED- sort of convincing myself that it's normal and healthy. On the other hand I'm genuinely wondering if it is a perfectly healthy way to live. Michael Mosley also suggests that weighing yourself every day is a good idea. I'm obviously doing this. And then telling myself I'm doing it because that's healthy and normal. I feel totally confused!! I think my thoughts are disordered as I'm beginning to think things like, I'll just get my weight down to the lowest healthy weight (so bmi 18.5)- is that normal? I also def get a buzz in the morning when my weight goes down - but perhaps that's normal too? I certainly have no desire to get to a really physically unhealthy point. But then it never starts off that way does it... arg! Please tell me your thoughts on this if it doesn't all sound too rambley and confused 😐 x

I guess I'm beginning to wonder whether a bit like how an alcoholic can't drink at all if they want to stay recovered, an anorexic can't go on diets to stay recovered. But then that seems unfair as then I think I'd just get overweight and that's obviously unhealthy too!

I don't think it's possible to diet and remain in recovery, and it seems like anorexic thinking to believe that not dieting puts you at risk of becoming overweight. We can just eat to nourish our bodies, and it sounds like you were doing that before you checked your weight. Your post pregnancy BMI was healthy, but you immediately got sucked into the lower = better mindset. Lower isn't better.

Dieting when you have a history of anorexia is like flipping a switch in your brain. It doesn't take long for all the lights to go off and you to be left in that dark place. I know it's easy to deceive yourself that this is normal when the rest of the world seems to be obsessed with losing weight, but the truth is that society in general has a deeply disordered relationship with food. Most people won't become diagnosably ill as a result, but most people will be unhappy with their bodies in some way. Being an anorexic in recovery means saying no to that social pressure in exactly the same way a recovering alcoholic says no to "just one drink".

@Millie2008 the same happens to me. I lose weight, anorexic thoughts creep back in and I use intermittent fasting - for me 16/8 - as a mask of disordered eating. I am the same as you during pregnancy and breastfeeding, except I'm mid-40s and been in this cycle since my late 30s. I'm also similar - I get my BMI to 22.7 and also anorexic thoughts creep in. I'm too heavy, too curvy, too unhealthy.

My honest advice is don't fast. Eat every meal. My healthy advice would be to eat 2 snacks a day too. A BMI of 19 something isn't healthy because your anorexic thoughts have crept back to you. Throw out the scales. Eat every meal. Maybe skip puddings if you have to skip something.

It's what I'm doing right now. I'm guessing my BMI is about 22-23. With the exception of pregnancy it's the biggest I've ever been. Measuring myself in clothes - I will ensure I never get bigger than a 10. That's how I acquiesce my mind. But intermittent fasting plays with our minds because I guess our minds are a bit like that 🤷‍♀️

@ugifletzet
Thank you so much for your reply and thoughts. This is exactly what I needed to hear and what I think I know deep down.
Regarding my normal bmi post pregnancy- I guess my worry was that it was slowly creeping up and wouldn't stop... is that odd? I really was eating a lot of "unhealthy" foods (and loving them! I love food- which perhaps drives the fear of just uncontrollably eating) and genuinely felt I should probably cut down on these foods and eat more fruit/veg/fibre. My other worry was that I think my waist circumference was a little over what Michael Mosley says is healthy- putting me at higher risk of diabetes and various cancers due to visceral fat. I've always carried weight on my middle, but even more so after pregnancies. So this drove a fear that I was going to die young and leave my 2 boys (my eldest has additional needs/autistic and goes to a special school, so it feels even more important that I'm alive a long time as he'll be dependent on me for longer). I guess that's veering into health anxiety I'm not sure. I agree that society has a disordered relationship with food. But can't square it with the fact a medical doctor/scientist is telling is this is the healthiest way to live...

@CousinLucy - I can't tell you how helpful/reassuring it is to read your post- I can't believe how similar we are. Yes- I can see how intermittent fasting plays with our minds, as it's essentially starving yourself for periods of time. I also go with 16:8 and have recently added a couple of fast days a week into the mix. If I had been doing this 10/15 years ago I feel like I wouldn't have thought it was healthy or been able to justify it as anything other that disordered eating. But now it not only seems socially acceptable, it's recommended by health professionals/doctors etc. Michael Mosley has done research to say that eating close to bedtime is bad because blood sugar rockets and your body struggles to deal with that just as it's about to/is sleeping- and so it's bad for you. So now, I'm sat in bed starving but telling myself that this is healthy. It's just so hard to work out what's best for our bodies. I'm always looking for a rule book, I guess because I don't trust myself or something

@Millie2008

@ugifletzet is right. Society is deeply disordered when it comes to food. For us, it just isn't helpful or healthy and it literally is, in my mind, like flipping a switch in my brain. Like uglifletzet says.

My reasoning is so disordered I'm thinking of re-establishing fasting. I can't say I won't because like you've said, the science behind it is compelling. But is isn't good for my body or mind. I know that. I don't know why I'd start it! I understand what you mean about gaining weight and I try to tell myself that I have never been fat (to someone else's standards) so my body doesn't have that set point. My set point is around where I am now. I feel so healthy, and alive, and really cognitively able to tackle anything at work. Colleagues talking at work, and restricting, I find really challenging. Society is disordered. I don't know why I'm not strong enough to not join them.

I don't subscribe to 'breakfast is the most important meal of the day ' but I echo my previous post. You must eat something every meal because you are a living organism and you use energy. It might be healthy and it might be less healthy, but it fuels you for the important job you have: to look after your children. Give up Michael Mosely. I wonder what his take on fasting for recovered anorexics would be. I'd love him to address it.

I know it's easier said than done. I'm looking good these days - I had a dreadful blip after the 2021 lockdown - but my thoughts can be chaotic. But others would never know. I feel a farce much of the time! 🤷‍♀️

Hi @Millie2008

To be honest, I could have written your post and I am in a difficult place right now, but not able to talk to anyone about it, even my husband.
I was anorexic in my teens and disordered eating lasted for a long time in to my twenties.
Things settled after I met my husband late twenties but looking back, I then got in to veganism and used to run miles a day, so even though I was eating okay I was still very compulsive.
After having my son in my early thirties I had the most calm and relaxed time ever around food and just didn't have the headspace to worry about it.
But things have started to ramp up again over the last few years. I echo what you have said about Michael Mosley, and I often justify the way that eat by thinking the same as you 'well MM says that fasting is healthy',
I also discovered Louise Parker, who is basically very low carb and advocates small meals. I have been following the Louise Parker method and am eating 3 meals a day, but small and low carb. I think to myself- well lots of scientists such as Tim Spector say that low carb is healthy for us so I'm sure I'm just being healthy.
My BMI is same as you- 19- so I shouldn't be trying to lose weight. But I keep thinking, just a few more
pounds. It does give me a buzz when a bit of weight comes off. I don't want to lose loads of weight. But I remember when I was anorexic I always used to think- I'll just lose a few more pounds. And then that was never enough.
I guess life has been difficult over the last few years. Having this control over my eating and weight definitely gives me something. And I'm being compulsive over exercise again too. Maybe I've got my head in the sand and am in denial that it's a problem. But I'm not sure it really is a problem if you know what I mean.

@Millie2008 Imagine, God forbid, you really did develop a severe health problem apart from anorexia. Which doctor would you choose to treat you - someone who had specialised in that field, with years if not decades of experience behind them, or someone who decided medicine wasn't for them in the final year of medical school and who went to work as a trainee producer in the BBC instead? That's what Michael Mosley did. He's not a registered doctor. He doesn't have a specialty. He isn't immersed in the latest medical research. Like so many TV diet gurus, his real expertise is self-promotion, but your anorexia wants to take him seriously because he's advocating all the things anorexia wants to do. If an eating disorders psychiatrist or a registered dietitian got on the TV and started saying that people in recovery from ED should always eat three meals a day and three snacks, the anorexic voice probably wouldn't recognise their expertise. Instead it would be telling you that this might be OK for people earlier in recovery, but it doesn't apply to you.

The sickest, most twisted thing about anorexia is that it makes unhealthy behaviour look reasonable, and this is what makes relapse possible.

@CousinLucy it's so hard isn't it. When other people seem to be able to go on diets and healthy eating plans and it not become a "problem". I've just started reading a book (because it was suggested in this thread) called "Recover rehabilitate require" by Tabitha Farrar. I can't decide what I think yet but I'm def compelled to keep reading it- just mentioning as she talks about this switch idea in people who are predisposed to anorexia.
Another thing I'm struggling with is how much to discuss with my partner. He knows I had anorexia as a teen and was hospitalised but I think just assumed I've been totally well since then. I love the fact our relationship has nothing to do with food- he assumes I don't have a problem with it so would never have opinions on/dictate what/when I eat. He doesn't think of what I'm doing now (vegan; intermittent fasting; cutting down on carbs and sugar) as worrying or unhealthy as he doesn't see me as someone with an ED. And I really like that. And hate the thought that that be introduced into our relationship. So I'm wondering how much (if anything) I should share with him..
You're probably right that I should give up MM. I have actually googled "Michael Moseley and eating disorders" a few times (which indicates that there's part of my brain that knows somethings not right)- and there has been quite a bit said on the matter. E.g. Beat were very unhappy with his "lose a stone in 21 days" programme.
I guess I'm also starting to wonder whether actually IF isn't great for anyone, from a mental health perspective anyway. As MM does say it's really only for people who fall in the "overweight" BMI category (but then says he does it himself to control the risk of diabetes and various cancers). But even if you're overweight, surely it could still lead to an increase in bingeing behaviours? I know my binge over Xmas was triggered by essentially starving and restricting my body (of carbs in particular) for 6 months.
I don't know- It's a confusing mess!
You sound in a good place in lots of ways - which is actually really inspiring to hear- as I was there too not THAT long ago, and it's helping me remember that I think I felt better then than now...

@BettyCake - oh my goodness are we the same person?! Again so reassuring to hear other people going through the same confusion and thought processes as me.
What is your stance on veganism now? I watched so much stuff on it (obviously - totally all or nothing!) - that although it started as a health thing, I ended up seeing a lot of the cruelty side as well so now don't know where I stand ethically s don't know if I could go back.
Do you remember feeling happy, or at least content when you went through that phase around the time of having children? The weird thing is, despite being heavier than I've ever been (and a bit of an odd shape due to post baby/c-section tummy) I genuinely wasn't judging my body- probably for the first time in my life! I finally thought I was totally recovered! It just sees to have this sneaky way of creeping back in...
similar to you, life has felt really hard the last few years- particularly with my eldest's additional needs- I feel like such a failure as a parent most of the time- and parenting is all I do as I was unable to return to work (because of my sons needs). So being in control of food/losing weight is def giving me something

@ugifletzet - yes. You are of course so right. Exactly what I need to hear. I def wouldn't feel like I "should" be giving my body 3 meals and 2 snacks a day- even if an experienced professional told me so. So do you think most of what Michael Mosley says is BS then? He does give a lot of scientific evidence (I've read his book 🙈).

It's just so hard to know what "normally" eating is- in a culture where diets are everywhere and all types of food are abundant. I'm reading this Tabitha Farrar book (not v far in Tbf)- and seems to be advocating just eating whatever you want whenever you want. But surely in a society where food is abundant and accessible this would just eventually lead to being unhealthy/obese? I know it would for me if I totally and completely followed this advice as I love food

Personally I don't pay any attention to health and diet advice that comes from a TV presenter or other celebrity. They might help other people, but my dietitian got me settled into a meal plan before I was discharged from the ED team, and I know that this plan was based on my body and my recovery needs - it doesn't make sense to abandon it. I was very tempted to try intermittent fasting when everyone started talking about it, but I knew this was just the ED trying to find a socially and scientifically acceptable way to restrict. If I ever find myself unwell again or at risk of becoming unwell, I'll invest in a couple of appointments with a registered dietitian with ED experience to get me back on track. I know someone with those qualifications wouldn't tell me what the ED wanted to hear.

@ugifletzet I hope you don't mind me picking your brains- it's just lots of what you're saying is helpful and making me think. Do you mind sharing how long you've had the mindset you've currently got? And do you continue to follow the meal plan set by the dietician quite rigidly, or does it have some flexibility? I guess my problem is that I'll think I've got to a good place, but then seemingly haven't- as soon as I'm under some kind of stress or am triggered in some way. Just trying to figure out how I can get to a healthy mindset that actually lasts and is secure enough not to be influenced by external factors

I don't think any kind of fasting is recommended for people with a history of ED. I think MMs ideas are for people who are obese, but even then set point theory would argue that the kind of rapid weight loss would not be sustainable.

I haven't read Tabitha Farrar's book, but it sounds like it advocates intuitive eating. I think the idea that if eat what you want when you want, you will become overweight is an eating disordered thought. I know that I have that fear and it is holding my recovery back (bulimia not anorexia). I think the principle is that your body won't crave processed foods all the time, if you allow yourself to have them when you want, without restriction. If you allow yourself to eat chocolate for breakfast lunch and dinner, you probably wouldn't want to do that for very long - your body will crave something else. I would love to be able to get to that point, where I am able to trust my body. But at the moment, the best I can do is my 3+3 meal plan, trying to fuel my body enough, without getting urges to binge and purge.

@Rustnot thank you for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate all thoughts.
Can I just ask what set point theory is?
Thank you for being honest and telling me that my worry about eating what I want is an eating disordered tonight- this is exactly the kind of thing I want some clarity about. I guess I wondered if everyone thought in this way.
Is your 3+3 meal plan 3 meals and 3 snacks a day? Does it prescribe what you eat specifically? I hope you get to the place you want to be. I too love the idea of being totally free from all of this to the extent I'm no longer at risk of slipping bank. I think the difficulty is that atm controlling my food intake/weight is giving me something that's lacking in my life at the moment

*thought not tonight

Hiya , posted this on other thread without answers under my old account which just got locked out of? Anyway just wondering for my nearly 18 year old DD who is 167cm , so nearly 5’6 that is I think, her arm circumference measurement is 23cm which is just over 9inches. These measurements mean nothing to me, so wondering if others know more?

she has anorexia and currently refusing to be weighed so they have resorted to this which she reluctantly agreed. Let me know :)