Advice re relocation of children

[warrior2018]

Hi, TIA for reading and commenting. I separated from my hb 2 years ago and we share 50/50 custody of our two children, ds 9 and dd 6. My entire family live an hour away as I relocated to live with my hb. He is estranged from his family therefore no extended family here. He is a fireman and works 4 days on, 4 off including 2 night shifts and I work as a nurse 9-5, Mon to Fri. Currently I hv the kids on the 4 days he works and he when he’s off. I have shown I am unable to continue current arrangement as it means making up a lot of hours in work due to childcare and not enough a/l to cover childcare over kids holidays and he is unable to have the kids more. I have a job offer back home with better prospects and career progression/better salary in the long term and more flexible hours so I can offer more childcare without having to make hours up plus with family close by will be able to help me out which they can’t do where I am currently. Housing is also cheaper and can offer a better standard of living. My ex has applied for PSO to stop me moving on grounds he will see them less and CAFCASS report has deemed not in kids best interests due to this fact, but I can demonstrate he will still have them same amount of weekends as now and he can travel to see them after school during the week as he won’t be working. If I move he cannot provide care for kids due to his shifts but I do not want to make it seem I will be moving regardless of the courts decision. Anyone any experience in this area?

OK but you can't have them when you are working either, and yet you find a way!

So he would have to do the same and source childcare. Yes it would be difficult, but it's difficult for you to keep changing your hours and trying to cover holidays and he doesn't seem fussed by that. So you need to not be fussed by it being hard for him

It's not in your children's interests to have a mother who is running herself into the ground trying to take care of them, while their father walzes around having everything his way. Either he steps up and does his share of the logistics (including paying for childcare) or I'd suggest to him that he has the DC for a couple of weeks to practice his role as primary carer.

I would anticipate that he would ask another school dad to get the kids and have them til he got back from work but he doesn’t have anyone to have them overnight nor would I want my kids being with some random person overnight for 2 nights a week when they could be with me I guess. Just not sure how firm a stance to take on the moving issue if he agreed to make modifications to the schedule to suit me I’m still giving up an amazing career opportunity and salary rise that would benefit the kids overall I think 😞

while their father walzes around

He’s a firefighter. She’s a nurse. Nobody’s doing any waltzing.

Certainly did it around the house for 10 years 🤭🤣

I went through similar and my move was allowed in court. I felt the courts did take my opinion and situation into account. I said I would be devastated if the move were refused and it turns out that was a key factor in the judge's decision. You have had some good advice here and you have a solicitor which is good. The judge wants to find an outcome that works for everyone, including you. If you are exhausted and unable to pay for childcare it won't benefit the children. Your reasons for requesting such a big change are clear, just make sure you can express them with clarity in court.

You should mention his refusal to discuss any other options and how your flexibility is making the current situation work but it cannot continue.

IMO you need to stop supporting him as much as you are. You are not a partnership any more and he needs to understand that.

Good luck.

Week on week off won’t work unfortunately as he can’t facilitate school pick up when he works days as he works til 6pm, and he works 2 night shifts. So he’s completely unable to have the kids when he’s working. There is the option for him to have them on days he works night shifts, just to pick the kids up from school and have them for like an hour or 1hr 30 til I finish, and where he’d have them the whole day over the summer hols I would argue that I would be expecting to have an extra day/overnight at the weekend to compensate. But I would still want to move to pursue the job offer I have which will give me more flexible working conditions (lots of home working and flexible hours) and an extra £10k a year. Not possible where I am 😩 whether the court would see this as benefitting the kids is doubtful tho.

You are still trying to solve his problems op.

Put some options to court, including the one suggested by the pp. He needs to figure out what will or won't work. At the moment you are doing all the thinking for him. Drop the rope. Give some options, let him argue why it won't work. He'll show himself up.....

No external appreciation at home. Hence the waltzing. Whereas this sort like being the big man at work - it doesn't fit their image to say "sorry I've got to leave early for the kids".

Do you know how his colleagues manage the shift pattern and childcare?

Thing is. While the current arrangement is unfair to mum.the proposed suggestion to move away is unfair to dad.

I also do see why caffcass said. "Not in the children's best interest" Currently they have an involved father whom has them 50/50. Weekends with dad will never create the same.

I think op you could aim to get an order that orders set days over summer dad has to have them and set days you need to have them. So for sake of argument. Dad has them from 1st August until 15th August and is responsible for childcare during this time you have them from 15th August to 31st August and is responsible for child care duing this time. Mum has time from school ends until 1st August dad had time I'm september until school start.(this is just made up but basically you get 3 weeks each) Dad has 1st week of Easter mum has 2nd. Mum has February half term dad has autumn half term. Christmas is split half half mum has first half. Dad has 2nd half in even years . Uneven years this is flipped around. Each parent is responsible for ensuring that they have adequate childcare arranged for their holiday time.

This should free up some of ops holiday time and it will ensure dad has to use some of his too. Making life easier for op. Making dad have to actually spend holiday time on being a parent.

I don't have a solution but I do empathise with you. Everything has been worked around his working arrangements not yours. I'd move closer to your family as good support network. You can go for promotion. You'd have cheaper housing and be able to give kids more and have better quality of life. He can't stop you moving. A court could stop you moving kids but very unlikely and only if he made a fuss and asked to be primary carer which only you would know how likely this would be. You can tell the court having to work around his work pattern is having a detrimental affect on your MH. You are going to be divorced and so don't think it's fair to be tied to his 4 on 4 off work pattern any longer. Good luck.

I'd suggest to court you both have DC 1 week with you then one week with him. Let him argue to court it doesn't fit his shift patterns. You can then tell the court what you do now doesn't fit your shift patterns. You've tried to sit down and go through it with him but he refuses to discuss it.

I don’t. Most of them are older and close to retirement and are married with older kids but I don’t know how they managed

I know it’s unfair on him and potentially unfair on the kids for them to not have so much time w him and I get why CAFCASS have said as much. But they’re ignoring my inability to make it work and the current situation isn’t just unfair on me I can’t make it work logistically.
Week on/week off won’t work for him as he’ll have to find childcare for 2 days/afternoons including school pick up and til 6:30pm and 2 overnights. And that’s not just his problem although I know why people say it is but why would I want my kids with a stranger that much when I’m available overnight particularly and they can be with me. Week on/week off would present the same difficulties in making hours up and I guess I could advocate for before/after school care and this would give me a good break from work with annual leave but I would still struggle with the amount I need to take but it would definitely work better for me in all probability.
He would also argue that the fire service are very inflexible with annual leave and he is restricted on when he takes it so he’s unable to use it where and when he wants and it. They get allocated certain ‘blocks’ in the year and a rota system to designate priority in requesting where the leave is taken in that block. Again, his issue I know.

I guess it depends on the judge maybe. Can I ask how far away your move was and did this impact the time spent with dad? TIA

And you might lose your job!

Yes but you offer this then he has the option to pay for a childminder until 6pm or alternatives. Leave it to HIM to say no to this one.

i think you should accept the job regardless if it has lots of flexibility and home working and commute?

Op, what would he do if you died?
he’d gave to pay a child minder to do pick ups and drop offs around his shifts

Also, I know you’re saying you don’t want your kids with a childminder. I’m sure he doesn’t want to pay for one either. You just have to present it AS AN OPTION so that he turns it down.

Well I actually presented him with this hypothetical situation and his exact response was “I would sort it. But that’s not the case yet” 😳🤣

The court can't stop you from leaving. If he wants the DC to stay he needs to show the court how he is going to be the resident parent and you explain to the court how you will manage being the resident parent. He has told you in writing he cannot do this. I would submit this as evidence to the court. You tell the court you are forced to leave as it is not sustainable to stay under the current childcare arrangements.

I'd propose a fixed pattern of care, set days on a rolling fortnight with alternate weekends. How ex copes due to his shift pattern is not your concern, in the same way he has no concern regarding how you are failing to cover your childcare responsibilities. Fixed pattern is better for the children, and I'd it doesn't work, he'll have to submit a flexible working pattern to accommodate his responsibility.

I'm another who thinks you should offer 50/50, week on week off in court, with a fair split of holidays. And then let him turn it down because it doesn't fit his job.
You cannot continue to facilitate him seeing his children while you pick up the financial costs and burn yourself out in the process.
He has it made for him atm.

I'm not talking about week on week off though op. I'm talking about set holidays so he has to use his holiday allocation to cover the children during this time. That should free up a lot for you.

If he wants 50 50 he has to take 50 50 with all that entails that includes using his holiday allocation.

Sure, I get that. But he will argue that he is restricted and can’t take his annual leave when he wants ie over the summer holidays a lot of the time. As I said I know that’s his issue. He’s making his inflexibility around his work schedule my issue and I’m picking up all the slack. I’m exhausted