Advice re relocation of children

[warrior2018]

Hi, TIA for reading and commenting. I separated from my hb 2 years ago and we share 50/50 custody of our two children, ds 9 and dd 6. My entire family live an hour away as I relocated to live with my hb. He is estranged from his family therefore no extended family here. He is a fireman and works 4 days on, 4 off including 2 night shifts and I work as a nurse 9-5, Mon to Fri. Currently I hv the kids on the 4 days he works and he when he’s off. I have shown I am unable to continue current arrangement as it means making up a lot of hours in work due to childcare and not enough a/l to cover childcare over kids holidays and he is unable to have the kids more. I have a job offer back home with better prospects and career progression/better salary in the long term and more flexible hours so I can offer more childcare without having to make hours up plus with family close by will be able to help me out which they can’t do where I am currently. Housing is also cheaper and can offer a better standard of living. My ex has applied for PSO to stop me moving on grounds he will see them less and CAFCASS report has deemed not in kids best interests due to this fact, but I can demonstrate he will still have them same amount of weekends as now and he can travel to see them after school during the week as he won’t be working. If I move he cannot provide care for kids due to his shifts but I do not want to make it seem I will be moving regardless of the courts decision. Anyone any experience in this area?

I'm still not understanding this. 28+8 =36, and you needed to use 34, so you had enough leave? And in total there's 13 weeks (13 ×5) 65 days school holidays, so you were only 1.5 days over your fair half share of 32.5 days holiday cover. (Fair to expect this to be evened out, but it's not going to make a big difference.)

Most parents are with their children on all of their annual leave, surely? DH and I most certainly were, plus all weekend, every weekend too (I presume you have some weekends free when your children are with ExH.)

I can't see any compelling reason to drag the children away from their school, their friends, their hobbies and clubs and most importantly, their other loving parent with whom they are used to spending half the week, based on what you say. I suspect a court will agree.

Maybe leave the children with your exH and have them every other weekend yourself (and pay appropriate CMS) if you really resent spending your annual leave/ time off with them.

You need to split the childcare cost monthly over the year and save for it. You should get tax free childcare for it? So it’s more like £83pm. You’d have had the same cost while married anyway surely?

I know this year it might be hard to pay for but you must’ve seen it coming?

DD starts school this Sept and we will be putting money away for the holiday clubs from day 1. We need 3 weeks of paid childcare over the year (A/L covers the rest) so we’re saving £50pm in readiness. DH could take unpaid leave for it but that costs us far more than paying for it so we’ll pay.

What did you do before they were at school?

No. I needed 34 days outside of the bank holidays. It’s not an issue for me to have the kids on a bank holiday as I don’t work them.
It makes sense that you would consider the holidays to be an even split but it might not work out like this as we have them 4 days on and 4 off so it just depends on how the days fall over the week as to how many days I would have them during the working week. Point is, he has the kids on his days off work so he doesn’t have to worry about using leave to care for the kids. He isn’t able to provide care for the kids on a full time basis because of his shifts - he works 9-6pm and 6pm til 9am and no one to help him here.

I might have a conversation with him that goes, "I can't afford the present set-up any longer, sorry. Either you give me X, Y and Z or I'm moving and you let the kids come or you're going to have to do a hell of a lot more caring for them, mate. Because I'm not your unpaid nanny and you can't keep me here."

I have a job offer back home with better prospects and career progression/better salary in the long term and more flexible hours

The ideal would be that job where you are now. Keep looking?

An hour isn’t all that far. Any chance of commuting?

Could family help with childcare in the school holidays from an hour away, e.g. children stay over with them for some of the holidays?

I do think, as the children get older, living within walking/short bus ride distance from both parents is perfect for them, so they’re not tied to whole weekend arrangements and can move between the households independently.

Before they were at school we paid £800pcm for nursery fees 🤣 but we were together and not having to pay for separate housing/bills etc so it was doable. Tight, but doable. Now? Not so much

But they are splitting childcare responsibilities equally, give or take. Based on 13 weeks school holidays, last year, she covered 34 days, he covered 31. I mean, he owes her 1.5 days, but I'm guessing this is swings and roundabouts depending on when working days fall, and evens out over time.

There is nothing to suggest this 50/50 parent is shirking his responsibilities in any way. Why should the children's time with him and his time with the children be reduced to accommodate his ex wanting to move away? Would she be happy in the reverse situation? And it's a massive upheaval for the children, and hard to see how it's on their best interests.

Realistically I can't see the costs being on OPs side, because they will consider what is best for the children rather than what is best for her.

He's set up the contact to suit his convenience, rather than compromising so the arrangement works for them both.

In reality, unless he wants to be primary carer, there's nowt the court can do to stop the OP moving.

Besides, an hour is no distance at all. The ex can travel that to collect the kids from school/for contact since he's not the one reliant on childcare arrangements/clubs etc.

Realised I cross posted. So fair = equal split of holidays (so he'd have to take a few days A/L to fo the full 32.5 days he's responsible for, and ypud maybe need to sort out a few days childcare over your annual leave, either paid for or with family). One hour is very commutable, DH and I both commuted for longer when ours were little. It was tough and tiring, but fairly normal for many people, and we coped.

It's not reasonable to uproot children and take them away from a 50/50 parent.

If you are not divorced yet then finances aren't settled.

This appears to be about finances and given the dcs ages you are likely to need summer care for 5 years. That's an amount that could be resolved by a split of finances.

Never say never but I think you may struggle with your case. If you had the finances you could stay (appreciate you may want to move) but if money is the obstacle then it could be resolved.

I think it's important to list what you have proposed to him and that mediation was refused. Before you spend ££ on a barrister (which is likely to equal the costs for 5 years summer camp) question if it's a good use of your money. A solicitor will take your money even if you have a slim chance of succeeding.

Realistically if the children want to stay with the current arrangements it's really, really unlikely a judge will uproot them. Especially if childcare could be costed at circa 10k, until they reach an age when it isn't required. Legal fees is likely to be that for you both.

He’s not shirking his responsibilities, he undertakes 50% of the childcare. But he does so on his days off without him having to use a/l or make time back at work. I am saying the current arrangement is literally physically impossible for me due to not having enough a/l. Ex has refused to assist further to make the arrangement sustainable for me leaving me having to rely on family an hour away which with travelling time is not feasible before and after work. Summer camps are unaffordable with our respective increased spending costs living separately. The only alternative I can see would be for him to have the kids during the days he works night shifts and for me to collect them after I finish work, and over the summer hols for me then to have more time at the weekend to compensate. But he has refused to make amendments and pulled out of mediation

So you need 34 days and you get 28 days leave? So you only need 6 extra days childcare? I don’t see the issue, that’s only around £460 a year for the holiday cover. Or send them to stay with grandparents for a couple of days overnight. Many of us don’t have family close by, not even an hour away. My DC will be going to stay with grandparents on the days that can’t be covered by annual leave, or paid holiday clubs. Not many of us can cover all the school holidays.

My ex can bc he doesn’t have to use any leave!! So I have to use every scrap of my a/l to cover childcare AND then send the kids away on the days I would have them over the holidays to cover the additional childcare?! I get that you’re looking at this from a child focused perspective but cmon.. this limits the amount of time the kids spend with me purely in favour of keeping the status quo for him when there are adjustments he could make that he’s refusing to do.

We have a hearing later this month for the final order on the divorce so it’s likely that the divorce will be finalised before any financial settlement. We could split the cost for additional childcare but this is an added expense I think we’d both struggle with

I'm sorry OP I don't understand why people are missing how fundamentally unfair this arrangement is to be based entirely on what works for your ex and absolutely no consideration for what works for you. I have no solution but I understand your point.

Can you offer 50/50 as a week on/week off as the other alternative to moving.

So you are coming from the stance of what you have currently isn't working and isn't sustainable. Your suggestions are you move or you do week on week off plus half holidays and he has to sort his own childcare when it's his week. This would solve your work issue although not the being far from support one, but it's way less desirable for him.

I assume it would also go in your favour at court that you have presented two options and he hasn't come up with any.

Week on week off won’t work unfortunately as he can’t facilitate school pick up when he works days as he works til 6pm, and he works 2 night shifts. So he’s completely unable to have the kids when he’s working. There is the option for him to have them on days he works night shifts, just to pick the kids up from school and have them for like an hour or 1hr 30 til I finish, and where he’d have them the whole day over the summer hols I would argue that I would be expecting to have an extra day/overnight at the weekend to compensate. But I would still want to move to pursue the job offer I have which will give me more flexible working conditions (lots of home working and flexible hours) and an extra £10k a year. Not possible where I am 😩 whether the court would see this as benefitting the kids is doubtful tho.

You need a reliable weekly pattern.
He needs a rolling pattern.

Fair to him is him having them on his off days.
Fair to you is knowing that you need them in childcare on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday for example.

It is unfair but I get we’re looking at it from the kids welfare perspective. But the arrangement should be workable for us both

I would be so annoyed by this. So he just gets to go about his business as usual

I think you should tell him that you are prepared to move anyway and he can be the primary carer- in that case he would have to quit his job, find a 9-5 and organise some childcare

Would he do that? Some men would simply out of spite

or if you think he’s too dedicated to his job then offer him to call his bluff

is he a dedicated father or simply trying to get out of paying maintenance?

@warrior2018 I hear you and where you are coming from. This arrangement was designed around his schedule and you are the one trying to make it work.

Fundamentally it needs changing so both take on equal amounts of inconvenience and holidays sacrificed to childcare. You sound burnt out and desperate and you are dealing with an unreasonable prick. was he this selfish in your marriage?

You need some of your holiday for you to rest, relax and have fun. Don’t be mum-shamed for wanting to use some of your holiday for actual holiday.

Nah he wouldn’t do that. He’s been with the fire service for donkeys years and has a stonking pension if he stays til retirement 🤣
He has the capacity to be a great father when he wants to be. Unfortunately it took for us to split up for this to materialise. But the kids are getting the best of him now so silver lining an all that 🤣

Thanks. I am both of those things 🤣 and yes he was this selfish hence why I left him. I’m sure the courts won’t care that I’m struggling they’re there to think about the kids which is fine but it needs to be a sustainable arrangement for us both, not just him 🤷🏽‍♀️

I doubt the judge can expect you to accommodate his shifts permanently

Why the hell should you be the one sacrificing your career whilst he gets to do what he wants with his?

It is not your sole responsibility to facilitate contact around his shifts for the next ten years!

you do need a barrister tho ideally a feminist biatch type one!