Advice re relocation of children

[warrior2018]

Hi, TIA for reading and commenting. I separated from my hb 2 years ago and we share 50/50 custody of our two children, ds 9 and dd 6. My entire family live an hour away as I relocated to live with my hb. He is estranged from his family therefore no extended family here. He is a fireman and works 4 days on, 4 off including 2 night shifts and I work as a nurse 9-5, Mon to Fri. Currently I hv the kids on the 4 days he works and he when he’s off. I have shown I am unable to continue current arrangement as it means making up a lot of hours in work due to childcare and not enough a/l to cover childcare over kids holidays and he is unable to have the kids more. I have a job offer back home with better prospects and career progression/better salary in the long term and more flexible hours so I can offer more childcare without having to make hours up plus with family close by will be able to help me out which they can’t do where I am currently. Housing is also cheaper and can offer a better standard of living. My ex has applied for PSO to stop me moving on grounds he will see them less and CAFCASS report has deemed not in kids best interests due to this fact, but I can demonstrate he will still have them same amount of weekends as now and he can travel to see them after school during the week as he won’t be working. If I move he cannot provide care for kids due to his shifts but I do not want to make it seem I will be moving regardless of the courts decision. Anyone any experience in this area?

Write a detailed schedule that includes you /your job... Ex /his job. Add in finances used to maintain this schedule versus one if you move. Do any dc have SN? Extra help at school? If not swapping school will be easier... Add in appointments /extras that the dc attend via your support - ie the taking /picking up /costs . Add in any extras ex does.... Or leave obvious spaces if he does none. Imo he has his parenting down to bare minimum with least efforts...
Show this in black and white.. Of course he doesn't want things changed..

Yeah sorry think there’s misunderstanding. He manages childcare on his days just fine as he doesn’t work when he has the kids. But I struggle and can’t manage childcare w current arrangement on my days w them. I have to make up a lot of hours and don’t have enough a/l to cover my days w them over holidays. He can’t help out more/has refused

Whilst I don't doubt the existing arrangement isn't fair as it suits his work pattern rather than yours, your reason for moving seems to be simply that you don't want to pay for childcare, which I can't imagine will go down well. Surely trying to come to an arrangement to share childcare costs with your ex would be much more in the children's interests rather than stopping the 50/50 arrangement?

As it stands, I can't see the court agreeing with your proposal as it doesn't seem in the interests of the children. The status quo of 50/50 with each parent plus keeping them in their existing schools with their friends and being able to continue with clubs etc seems a far better option for them, even if not for you.

It is only an hour, which is nothing, this should be infinitely very doable! Especially with the arrangements. Your reassurance that it will remain exactly the same as before should surely be enough.

This is a lesson to all, move whilst you are still married, and divorce afterwards, or better still remain close to original support networks.

No children don’t have any SN or need additional help. We both facilitate ds football and rugby although he hates rugby and doesn’t want to go 🤣 and ehb pays for these.

I think sorting finances is your biggest barrier here. You need to pay for after school childcare and summer camps. He needs to be contributing financially (have you gone through CMS for that)? You can't manage all the outside school time while working, few of us can. You've got to pay for it.

Don’t want to pay for? I physically can’t..
This might be something they suggest in court which I will say should be a shared cost if he wants to keep the status quo. The better option imo would be him to pick the kids up from school an extra couple days per week and have them before his night shifts and me collect them after I finish work but he’s refused to help out more so 🤷🏽‍♀️

Technically we’re still married, we haven’t completed divorce yet but whether we’re married or not this wouldn’t affect likelihood of them being able to relocate ?!

If you can say the following:

You may lose your home
Struggling to pay standard bills
Prove any large debts
Any other reasons like parents are ill or elderly and need care
Remind the court your ex refused to support a change when you asked
Children are suffering in some other way

You need to put together a list of impacts this is having on

1. The children
2. You as a family
3. On you, therefore affecting the children

I meant when you were on the rocks but not at the point of separation. This is not your fault.

We were actually planning to relocate as a family before we separated, back to where I want to go, due to the lack of family/support structure where we are. Now we’re no longer together and given my current difficulties obviously there’s even more reason for me to want to go!

Yeah I’ve done this, hopefully I can prove it will be enough of a benefit to the kids, I know they will have no concern for the effects it’s having on me.

Just had a little look at summer camps in my area.. for all the days I need to cover over summer hols (16 working days) it would cost £1240 for both kids, at £40 a day for one child and £37.50 for a sibling. Even at a split cost between us at £620 each it’s not affordable. Even if I halve the amount of days and take more time off at a split cost that’s £310 for the month which is not affordable for me. I don’t even have an extra £200 a month to put the kids into camp. I’m not trying to throw up obstacles I’m just not sure what to suggest here 🤷🏽‍♀️

If he works 4 days on and 4 days off then surely the majority of that time will be during the Monday-Fridays that you are working and also covers plenty of the school holidays?

It covers some. You’d need to look at what that looks like exactly to appreciate the amount of hours I need to make up and days I need to take off. I need to take 16 days annual leave this summer to have the kids.

As an NHS worker, you'll have 30 days+ leave plus bank holiday allowance, surely? I'm not sure why taking your annual leave to spend with your children is a problem, DH and I spent all of our annual leave with our children until they were old enough to not want to to spend it with us! Or do you mean 16 days over and above your annual leave entitlement?

Genuinely, I think arguing for shared responsibility for holidays and holiday childcare costs would be a far better approach.

Moving away from everything the children know and stopping them having 50/50 with both parents just isn't in their best interests. A court ordered schedule of 50/50, including 50% responsibility each for covering holidays (either by having the children or paying for childcare) would be far better, and far less disruptive for them.

With 13 weeks school hols of which you'd be responsible for 6.5 if split in half, you'd only need to find a few days of childcare per year. Maybe they could go visit Granny for those extra few days?

Issues around relocating when you co-parent are so difficult.

I think one issue you may have is the proposal about your ex seeing the children after school. I think you are proposing that he does the travel. Usually the courts expect the parent who moves to do most of the travel or pay for it. He also won’t have a base near your new home to take them to. Realistically your proposal means that he may only see his children EOW in term time, which would fundamentally change his relationship with them. I can see why he’s not keen though I do sympathise with you wanting to move. I think you need a better solution for his contact time to have a realistic chance of winning this.

I think you also have to be careful with the financial arguments. Suggesting that you are destitute and might lose your house could backfire if he was to ask for more contact than he currently has. I do agree that a financial argument has to show how the children would be affected to be successful though.

I also wouldn’t be inclined to talk too much about having to make up hours on the weekend etc. - I don’t think the court would care much about this and they may see it as an arrangement which benefits the children in that you’re working when they’re not there.

Childcare is obviously really expensive and difficult to afford as a single parent but most parents do have to pay for wraparound care and it seems unlikely to outweigh the desirability (in the court’s eyes) of having a 50/50 arrangement. And are your family really going to have the children every evening after school if you relocate such that you avoid all need for wraparound?

Would your ex potentially relocate too if he was going to before?

I feel for you OP but you both had children and your exH wants to be in their lives. The ex have the children every other weekend is increasingly out of touch and the courts are looking for 50/50 custody (I recognise you won’t get child support for that). As children get older they want to hang out with friends and therefore both of you living close together makes sense.

can you imagine only seeing your children every other weekend? A 2 hour round trip for tea wouldn’t make sense. It’s not the same.

i understand you want help of family but I’m sorry to effectively move your husband to just seeing his children for 52 days a year (every other weekend) is not fair on him and especially not fair on children who are still very small.

I’m allocated 28 days plus the 8 days b/h. Last year I required 34 days a/l to cover when the kids were with me over their holidays. This coming summer holidays I will need to take 16 days off. I don’t have a problem taking the time for childcare I simply don’t have enough. And as these days have to be taken off in small chunks of up to 4 days at a time this leaves little time for rest away from work. Ex has been asked to assist further with days over the holidays and he has refused. Summer camps cost more than we can afford. Family have been helping out but facilitating travel to and from them is not feasible for me before and after work and whilst they have facilitated this at times I don’t think it fair to ask them to do it all the time as that’s basically 4 hours driving in a day.

I’m not looking for child support. He wouldn’t have EOW he would have the same amount of weekends with the kids that he has now with him only being unable to see them on the weekends he is working. If he wants them to remain where they are then you’d think he would come to the table to discuss some kind of workable arrangement?

This. Court order is for the children not you.

Unless he's prepared to have them full-time, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

So effectively if you move, the only thing he can do is go to court and ask to be primary carer and you to have EOW (which he doesn't want).

Yeah I think that’s a sticking point but the opportunity is there for him to come up and take the kids to after school sports practice, for food and tbh if he’s civil I wouldn’t mind him coming to the house. I don’t know but I agree this is an issue. He would t have EOW he would have the same amount of weekends he has now, only unable to see the kids on the weekends he’s working which is the case now.
I'm definitely not arguing that I’m destitute 🤣 but housing is cheaper there, and with my improved career prospects with current job offer I would argue I can provide them w a better standard of living.
My having to make up hours impacts the kids as I end up making up hours both when they’re with me and when they’re not with me as otherwise I’d spend my entire weekend working, which removes attention from them and I see the frustration in them bc of my lack of attention.
My family have said they could have the kids after school twice a week and my working hours would be much more flexible.
My issue is that my ex is being very inflexible w the arrangement and refusing to even discuss a modification

Have you discussed you moving and him being primary carer with him?

Might focus his mind on the problems you're facing a bit more.

I need to be fully prepared to move if the court grants the PSO though 😔

He doesn’t care about the problems im facing. I’ve broached the idea of moving w him and he will not agree to relocation. I have not discussed the idea of him being primary carer no