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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Is this fair?

116 replies

Bubble84 · 23/12/2022 23:12

My husband and I decided a few months ago that we should divorce. It's been amicable and we're both still living in the FMH and we haven't told the DCs (three girls aged 11, 8 and 5) yet. I'm finishing a degree at the moment and my STBXH said we could hold off starting proceedings until I graduate in May so I can focus on my studies.

We've talked about possible settlements but I'm not very clued up about the finances and I don't know what is fair. I was a SAHM until I started my degree 3 years ago and I do occasional shift work on a zero hours contract. I did most of the childcare for 8 years but my husband has had to do more than me for the past 3 years because he has been able to work from home whereas I have had a lot of lectures in the late afternoon.

We're both in our late 30s and have about £140k equity in our house and a £250k mortgage. STBXH has a pension of around £160k. Not much else between us as money has been tight whilst I stayed at home. He recently had a big pay rise and is on about £85k but we live a long way from where he works and commuting costs are becoming a big expense for us since he had to start going back to the office for 2 or 3 days a week.

STBXH works in finance and he's said he wants to give me some choices about the settlement but wants things to be fair to him as well as me. He is very against any agreement where I stay in the FMH and him on the mortgage (he has said this would be detrimental to him and to the children when they were with him and he would only do this if he was ordered to by a court) and he has also said that there should be a time limited stop on spousal maintenance (I think he called it a bar?) He has also said I will be expected to do more than be a teaching assistant (the job I want to do) and should be aiming to earn much more than £12k by the time youngest is 11 although he has said it's ultimately my choice (but that he won't paid maintenance because I choose to earn less than I could).

We're agreed on childcare. I know it is selfish but I do want some time to myself and I think he is a good dad and want them to spend time with him. He has suggested doing 5 nights a fortnight and shared holidays as this would be 60/40 and give me some child maintenance. But he has said he will do 50/50 now or in the future if I want him to.

He has suggested we wait 3 years to sell and nest and then I take most of the equity in the family home and he has done some research with a mortgage broker who says I can get a mortgage of £200k that takes into account what I can reasonably be expected to earn by then, CM, CB and UC. He has also said he could agree to something called a "Christmas Order" to pay extra child maintenance for a couple of years to boost my income and my mortgage capacity in the years before and after needing to move. Our house costs £400k but there are slightly smaller houses for £290k that he says I could own myself without him having any ownership of the property. He says I would be better off because I wouldn't need to buy him out later. I would prefer to stay in the FMH but he has said it would make it impossible for him to be able to buy and it would be impossible for me to pay the mortgage after interest rate rises.

For maintenance, he has said he could be ordered to pay me spousal maintenance but I would lose the kind of amounts he was expected to pay against universal credit and I wouldn't be better off. So he has suggested being more generous with the pension instead (giving me just under half of it) and not offsetting quite as much for me getting most of the home equity. He has also suggested those Christmas orders whilst I adjust for four years. He reckons if I earn what I should be able to plus the other income from benefits and child maintenance that I would have nearly as much as we're living on now (as I've not been earning anything up to now and can't receive UC or CB, so all these would make the pot much bigger than just half of what we are on now). I would have thought I would be entitled to spousal maintenance until the children were 18 though? He earns a lot more than me.

I don't know whether this is fair. Do I have to work full time when youngest is 11? Couldn't I stay in the FMH until children are 18?

OP posts:
Coffeellama · 23/12/2022 23:16

Is this a reverse?

isthistheendtakeabreath · 24/12/2022 06:41

There is a lot to unlock in your post but

1- if you can't cover the mortgage payments on your own then you can't stay in the FMH - courts don't like tying up the other parties equity - you have 3 children and he wants them 50/50 so needs to be able to provide a home for them. Someone will be along I'm sure mentioning mesher orders but you still have to pay the mortgage on your own

2 - yes you'll have to work and maximise your income at that - £12k is barely minimum wage....you need to think long and hard about how you plan to house yourself and your children on that wage and start thinking about long term career plans and not rely on your husbands CMS / he could be made redundant tomorrow

3 - spousal maintenance is unusual and only in place for say a year and that's it. I don't earn much less than your husband and I certainly won't be paying my ex spousal

Pleasecreateausername13 · 24/12/2022 06:48

What strikes me on this post is you are telling us everything your husband has told you.
Why haven’t you went and got your own financial and legal advice?

KangarooKenny · 24/12/2022 06:50

Haven’t read the whole post, but the answer is to ask a family solicitor, not MN. And don’t agree to anything until you have.

Nimbostratus100 · 24/12/2022 06:54

Dont you want to be in your own home and providing for yourself?

MaggieFS · 24/12/2022 06:59

You need to see your own solicitor

MusicstillonMTV · 24/12/2022 07:04

You need your own legal advice but I don't think your ex is being unreasonable with this suggestion.

If he can do 40-50% of the childcare and work full time, why can't you work full time? And don't you want to earn more than £12k anyway?

User0610134057 · 24/12/2022 07:09

He sounds extremely clued up on everything and you don’t.
doesnt sound unreasonable from what you’ve said but why on earth aren’t you asking a solicitor?

User0610134057 · 24/12/2022 07:10

And not to be rude but I don’t understand why you’re doing a degree then have a plan to earn £12K as a TA

GloriousGoosebumps · 24/12/2022 07:25

I can only echo the pp above and ask why you haven't taken your own legal advice? Your soon to be ex has done so. He may be being fair with his proposals or he may be taking advantage of your lack of knowledge but there's only one way to know for certain and that's to take your own legal advice.

LaurieFairyCake · 24/12/2022 07:27

Some of what he says is reasonable but the thing that screams out at me is that your equity and his pension are almost equal so it may be possible to stay in FMH and he has earning power to go and buy one of those £290k homes

I AM NOT A LAWYER - definitely get legal advice to decide what YOU want

Iamanadult · 24/12/2022 07:27

"he has said he could be ordered to pay me spousal maintenance but I would lose the kind of amounts he was expected to pay against universal credit and I wouldn't be better off"

Universal Credit! You and our STBXH are on 85k between you and soon to be more and because he is financially savvy he is trying to work the system so he pays less and the taxpayers pick up the bill for his kids!

This is an abuse of the UC system! I am a socialist but this is why the benefits system needs to be overhauled, individuals trying to work the system like your STBEXH on 85k should not rely on taxpayers to support their children!

crisscrosscringle · 24/12/2022 07:30

For fucks sake he's clearly taken legal advice. I suggest you do the same.

I despair of women sometimes, a man would never go onto a parenting forum to ask if his divorce settlement was fair Confused

Ansumpasty · 24/12/2022 07:35

Your ex sounds incredibly fair and like he still wants the best for you.

I have worked as a TA and you can’t possibly be a single parent on that wage unless you have an income from somewhere else or merely survive on top up benefits. You can’t expect your ex to work hard, full time, give you money and half his pension, while you live in a 400k house and work part time as a TA, and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

It seems as though he’s putting you and the children first in this, but so are you. Are you thinking about his needs and happiness, too? Sorry if that sounds mean, and of course I don’t know the whole story.

MeJane · 24/12/2022 07:54

crisscrosscringle · 24/12/2022 07:30

For fucks sake he's clearly taken legal advice. I suggest you do the same.

I despair of women sometimes, a man would never go onto a parenting forum to ask if his divorce settlement was fair Confused

Completely. Go to a solicitor before you are completely destitute.

You won't be able to live on £12000. I don't know any TA's who are able to live on their full time wage, never mind part time.

LynetteScavo · 24/12/2022 08:03

Why the hell are you studying for a degree to become a TA? A degree is not not necessary, and you'll be on a low income.

I'm only going to repeat what has already been said - but overall your DH sounds clued up, he also sounds to me like he's being fair and very sensible. But what do I know? I'm just a random MNetter, you need your own. legal advise.

Aphidsandhoneybees · 24/12/2022 08:08

It’s important you get your own professional legal advice. Make sure you are well informed and stop relying on what your stbxh is telling you. Best thing I ever did was become completely non-dependent on my ex. I bought him out of the family home but if this had not been possible I would have moved somewhere cheaper.

Haveahappyholiday · 24/12/2022 08:09

The detail in that is mind-boggling. You need to get legal advice.

What struck me is why you would wait three years to sell up. I know you want to stay in the family home but a clean break in divorce is preferred and you might need to sell the house and downsize (I had to and I had two small dc.) I would start thinking about how that would work. Surely if you both want to separate and divorce you would want to get on with it.

Jellycatspyjamas · 24/12/2022 08:48

He is very against any agreement where I stay in the FMH and him on the mortgage (he has said this would be detrimental to him and to the children when they were with him and he would only do this if he was ordered to by a court)
That sound fair enough tbh, he needs to be able to house himself and the kids for him time with them and wouldn’t be able to buy somewhere else if he was still on your mortgage. If you can’t afford to buy him out you’ll need to move

I’d be very surprised if spousal maintenance was due at all given his salary and the relatively short time you’ve been staying at home. It’s not like you’ve spent 20 years raising the kids.

You really need to get good legal advice which might give you a more realistic view of what is fair to you both.

PikachusSmarterBrother · 24/12/2022 08:53

I agree with PP - doing a degree in order to become a TA doesn't sound like a great idea. You'll need to earn more in order to become self sufficient.

You need legal advice - it sounds like your STBXH has already had some.

millymollymoomoo · 24/12/2022 09:03

Think it sounds he’s being overly fair

yiud be expected to work full time now or claim uc. He won’t be expected to keep you

agree with others re degree and TA… no point at all!

I think you need to quickly get your head around the fact things will change - you need a plan to become financially independent of him which includes severing ties on fmh and working to pay your own way !

you seem a little deluded in thinking you get to stay in fmh, not work much and in low pay job and him to just keep funding you!

millymollymoomoo · 24/12/2022 09:06

And he’s right - he won’t have to pay you maintenance because you choose a low pays job - that would be your choice and he won’t be expected to fund your lifestyle gap

there is zero chance you will get spousal till 18, you are completely unrealistic. You probably won’t get it at all and that’s completely fair

QuillBill · 24/12/2022 09:08

He has suggested doing 5 nights a fortnight and shared holidays as this would be 60/40 and give me some child maintenance

How are you going to pay the mortgage and the bills on this and the wage of a part time teaching assistant?

TheBitchOfTheVicar · 24/12/2022 09:09

Iamanadult · 24/12/2022 07:27

"he has said he could be ordered to pay me spousal maintenance but I would lose the kind of amounts he was expected to pay against universal credit and I wouldn't be better off"

Universal Credit! You and our STBXH are on 85k between you and soon to be more and because he is financially savvy he is trying to work the system so he pays less and the taxpayers pick up the bill for his kids!

This is an abuse of the UC system! I am a socialist but this is why the benefits system needs to be overhauled, individuals trying to work the system like your STBEXH on 85k should not rely on taxpayers to support their children!

But...if they aren't together he is not responsible for her financial choices.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 24/12/2022 09:23

He's right that spousal maintenance counts as income for UC and child maintenance does not. You might get a year or two of spousal, definitely won't get spousal maintenance ongoing for years till youngest is 18. A mesher order isn't necessarily in your best interests and you would have to pay the full mortgage on your own. I believe an agreement to pay increased CM can be revisited after a year and he could just pay the legal minimum, something to ask a lawyer. He seems to be being fairly eve handed in this, but as PPs have said get legal advice.