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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

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Original poster

Is this fair?

116 replies

Bubble84 · 23/12/2022 23:12

My husband and I decided a few months ago that we should divorce. It's been amicable and we're both still living in the FMH and we haven't told the DCs (three girls aged 11, 8 and 5) yet. I'm finishing a degree at the moment and my STBXH said we could hold off starting proceedings until I graduate in May so I can focus on my studies.

We've talked about possible settlements but I'm not very clued up about the finances and I don't know what is fair. I was a SAHM until I started my degree 3 years ago and I do occasional shift work on a zero hours contract. I did most of the childcare for 8 years but my husband has had to do more than me for the past 3 years because he has been able to work from home whereas I have had a lot of lectures in the late afternoon.

We're both in our late 30s and have about £140k equity in our house and a £250k mortgage. STBXH has a pension of around £160k. Not much else between us as money has been tight whilst I stayed at home. He recently had a big pay rise and is on about £85k but we live a long way from where he works and commuting costs are becoming a big expense for us since he had to start going back to the office for 2 or 3 days a week.

STBXH works in finance and he's said he wants to give me some choices about the settlement but wants things to be fair to him as well as me. He is very against any agreement where I stay in the FMH and him on the mortgage (he has said this would be detrimental to him and to the children when they were with him and he would only do this if he was ordered to by a court) and he has also said that there should be a time limited stop on spousal maintenance (I think he called it a bar?) He has also said I will be expected to do more than be a teaching assistant (the job I want to do) and should be aiming to earn much more than £12k by the time youngest is 11 although he has said it's ultimately my choice (but that he won't paid maintenance because I choose to earn less than I could).

We're agreed on childcare. I know it is selfish but I do want some time to myself and I think he is a good dad and want them to spend time with him. He has suggested doing 5 nights a fortnight and shared holidays as this would be 60/40 and give me some child maintenance. But he has said he will do 50/50 now or in the future if I want him to.

He has suggested we wait 3 years to sell and nest and then I take most of the equity in the family home and he has done some research with a mortgage broker who says I can get a mortgage of £200k that takes into account what I can reasonably be expected to earn by then, CM, CB and UC. He has also said he could agree to something called a "Christmas Order" to pay extra child maintenance for a couple of years to boost my income and my mortgage capacity in the years before and after needing to move. Our house costs £400k but there are slightly smaller houses for £290k that he says I could own myself without him having any ownership of the property. He says I would be better off because I wouldn't need to buy him out later. I would prefer to stay in the FMH but he has said it would make it impossible for him to be able to buy and it would be impossible for me to pay the mortgage after interest rate rises.

For maintenance, he has said he could be ordered to pay me spousal maintenance but I would lose the kind of amounts he was expected to pay against universal credit and I wouldn't be better off. So he has suggested being more generous with the pension instead (giving me just under half of it) and not offsetting quite as much for me getting most of the home equity. He has also suggested those Christmas orders whilst I adjust for four years. He reckons if I earn what I should be able to plus the other income from benefits and child maintenance that I would have nearly as much as we're living on now (as I've not been earning anything up to now and can't receive UC or CB, so all these would make the pot much bigger than just half of what we are on now). I would have thought I would be entitled to spousal maintenance until the children were 18 though? He earns a lot more than me.

I don't know whether this is fair. Do I have to work full time when youngest is 11? Couldn't I stay in the FMH until children are 18?

OP posts:

PeekAtYou · 24/12/2022 23:37

Bubble84 · 24/12/2022 21:19

I thought the needs of the children were meant to come first? Why should my DCs have to share bedrooms just so he can buy a house? And I'm not saying I won't work, I just want a job so I can be home when they are.

Do you want your kids to stay with their dad on a house with other grown adults ?
You need to think about what is best for the kids. They deserve somewhere nice when they are with both parents and they will be with their dad 40% of the time.
Their dad is reasonable to say that he doesn't want to live in a house share. A home of your own is not an unreasonable goal for a worker. Your ex is not unreasonable to not want a Mesher order. He will want to move on and a home of his own will be part of that.
You know that if your ex stops working then child maintenance and spousal becomes zero ? You don't want him to be unemployed because it will screw up your financial situation properly and there would be nothing that you could do.

You are not the only person wanting a job that syncs with the kids. But this is often a luxury that can be done because there's a high earning partner or special circumstances like a paid off mortgage. If this goes to court then a judge would expect you to work full time using formal childcare and your ex.

Luredbyapomegranate · 25/12/2022 00:07

What’s the point of doing a degree if you’re going to be a teaching assistant - why wouldn’t you teach? It’s not fair on your children or your ex to deliberately earn so little. If you don’t have a partner supporting you you can’t do a pocket money job if you are able to do more.

You won’t be able to stay in your marital home if it stops him being able to buy a home. It’s in your kids interests they can stay with you both, and you are both financially stable.

See a solicitor for the rest of it. Stop letting him tell you how it will be - but grow up in other ways too - you need to get a career going, support yourself and be a good example to your daughters.

Carrick27 · 25/12/2022 05:58

Get legal advice. I went through mediation with my ex husband and he plead poverty. He’s now living in a new build house! Don’t let your husband ‘tell you’ what he wants to give you. Run it all past a solicitor and then see where you stand.

DrMarciaFieldstone · 25/12/2022 06:10

Honestly, please get some proper legal advice. I think you’re in for a shock.

DrMarciaFieldstone · 25/12/2022 06:13

Bubble84 · 24/12/2022 21:19

Why doesn’t he need a house?! This type of thinking is insane. ‘The childrens needs’ does not mean the mother gets everything by default.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 25/12/2022 06:19

Do I have to work full time when youngest is 11?

Why on earth not? She's 11 years old not 11 days.

Have you not been working at all throughout your marriage? No wonder he wants to get divorced. It won't kill the kids to share bedrooms either. I think you're expecting the moon on a stick to be honest.

Liorae · 25/12/2022 14:17

This is the end result of the Mumsnet LTB because I didn't like my Christmas present advice.

Crazycrazylady · 26/12/2022 11:43

Op
You are in for a massive shock when your oh gets proper legal advice...
Basic rule of thumb legally is that you high split the totally available equity ( with you prob getting a bit more) and then you're on you own. You can hardly expect you ex to support you to be a sahp after the divorce. You absolutely will need to earn more than a TA salary to do that.

Dragonskin · 26/12/2022 13:18

Bubble84 · 24/12/2022 21:19

With the best will in the world OP, you aren't going to get everything you want and expecting to be able to while your ex husband funds everything (and yet lives in shitty shared accommodation himself) is a wildly unrealistic expectation. You will need to be able to support yourself, so need to have a rethink on your personal plans

Original poster

Bubble84 · 27/12/2022 12:15

I have been researching and I would have thought it would be fair for him to keep his pension and transfer the house to me but stay on the mortgage because I can't lend enough on my own. He'd have to rent but he should be providing a house for his DCs and he would have his pension. Also I can't work full time because of DCs so he should pay me spousal maintenance for that. Why is that unfair?

OP posts:

Nimbostratus100 · 27/12/2022 12:19

why cant you work full time?

Wanderingoff · 27/12/2022 12:24

so you can’t work full time but you also want “time to yourself” and you want 60/40 split childcare!!?? And you want him to pay you spousal maintenance to fund you!!??

if I were him I’d be going for 50/50 child care and you’ll get no maintenance at all. Plus 50/50 split of all the assets.

i suspect this is what will end up happening given your attitude.

being a mother does not make you more entitled in itself im afraid op.

Jellycatspyjamas · 27/12/2022 12:44

He'd have to rent but he should be providing a house for his DCs and he would have his pension.

You both should be providing a house for your DC, and he’ll need to provide a house for them while they’re with him. And why on Earth would he transfer the asset that is your FMH, pay the mortgage and have no ownership of the house he’s paying for?

There’s no reason why you can’t work full time, it’s your preference not to - why should he pay for that? He’ll have the kids 40% of the time and presumably will be working full time.

It sounds like you’re wanting to divorce but still have married financial arrangements. His responsibility financially starts and ends with supporting his kids, not funding your preferred lifestyle, be that the size of house you want, the job choices you make etc etc.

MusicstillonMTV · 27/12/2022 12:52

Wanderingoff · 27/12/2022 12:24

so you can’t work full time but you also want “time to yourself” and you want 60/40 split childcare!!?? And you want him to pay you spousal maintenance to fund you!!??

if I were him I’d be going for 50/50 child care and you’ll get no maintenance at all. Plus 50/50 split of all the assets.

i suspect this is what will end up happening given your attitude.

being a mother does not make you more entitled in itself im afraid op.

He has been the primary caregiver for the last 3 years according to the OP so could actually go for 60/40 in his favour and ask the OP for maintenance...

I would be quite careful not to be a pisstaker if I were her

cynicat · 27/12/2022 12:56

You in for an enormous shock op.

JamMakingWannaBe · 27/12/2022 12:57

What is fair is a split of the assets, which appears to be your family home and his pension.

As PP have explained, this is adequate housing for you both, including when you each have the kids. Kids sharing a bedroom is fine.

Once this is done, how you both then live your lives is up to you.

If you want a term time minimum wage job, and to be facing a poverty retirement if you can ever afford to give up work, crack on.

If you'd like some of the finer things in live and a more secure financial retirement, use your degree to get a decent job and work full time.

Millions of parents have children and a full time job. What makes you special?

Once you are divorced he has no obligation to support YOU financially, and it's not fair to expect him to.

MelchiorsMistress · 27/12/2022 13:00

Are you for real or ar who’s in the wind up? It’s unfair because you’re expecting him to do everything and provide everything while you do next to nothing.

You realise that a thing called childcare exists and plenty of parents use it while they work full time? You would have shared care for your children anyway considering their father already does more than a fair share of childcare, so plenty of time for you to work. Why do you think that having babies entitles you to a free house? Why do you think that you have no financial obligation to provide for your children but think that their Dad should provide a home, and an income, and childcare?

Fleabea · 27/12/2022 13:37

Bubble84 · 27/12/2022 12:15

Wow. Just wow.

Why on earth should you be allowed to have a mortgage supported by him yet he has to rent/possibly have to live in a shared house. Where are you expecting your children to sleep when they stay with him?

Why do you need to have a job that is part-time/term-time only to look after the children when exh will be having the kids 40% of the time. What are you supposedly going to be doing when he has the kids?

You are getting a divorce. You cannot expect him to maintain the same lifestyle for you as if you were not getting a divorce.

You need a reality check, some pride, and a solicitor.

Dragonskin · 27/12/2022 13:49

Bubble84 · 27/12/2022 12:15

Don't be ridiculous, millions of parents work full time with children. There is no 'can't' about it, just 'I don't want to', which you should have thought about before separating because you are going to need to make that work and not expect him to subsidise you

GrasstrackGirl · 27/12/2022 15:53

You sound deluded OP.

Go and see a solicitor and then update us with what they said, as I think that you are in for a massive shock.

astronewt · 27/12/2022 15:57

The gravy train is over. Finished. Kaput. If you want your DC to have their own bedrooms, the person whose job it is to pay the mortgage on a house of the requisite size is you.

You have a degree and your DC are all school aged. No more very PT for minimum wage. You will have to work FT for the highest salary you can get like everyone else.

OutDamnedSpot · 27/12/2022 18:26

Okay. I’m going to break this down into very small chunks:

the needs of the children are paramount
if he has them 40/60 or 50/50 then they need reasonable accommodation with him as well as with you
unless he is a multimillionaire, he won’t be expected to fund your mortgage as well as his rent

It actually sounds like he’s being very fair at the moment, but you really really need legal advice.

OutDamnedSpot · 27/12/2022 18:27

Sorry. I missed a bullet point.

that means that if you want to stay in your house, you either need a better paid job or a shot hot lawyer!

millymollymoomoo · 27/12/2022 19:17

Op the only thing I’ll comment on is it s possible to trade off pension for equity - but it’s not £ for £
so depending on the type of pension he has it won’t be considers 160k as it’s not a liquid asset

you will need to work full time ( or be on benefits)
provide for yiurself

he will not be expected to find you to keep you part time

Original poster

Bubble84 · 28/12/2022 00:11

But I thought it wasn't that uncommon for one party to get the house and the other the pension? Yes he would need to stay on the mortgage because I wouldn't earn enough to take it on on my own and I will need help paying it because of interest rates going up but I thought this was normal? A solicitor on another forum seemed to think a transfer of the house with a best endeavours clause to release my STBXH (which realistically I couldn't do) would be possible in return for the pension?

OP posts:

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