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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Is this fair?

116 replies

Bubble84 · 23/12/2022 23:12

My husband and I decided a few months ago that we should divorce. It's been amicable and we're both still living in the FMH and we haven't told the DCs (three girls aged 11, 8 and 5) yet. I'm finishing a degree at the moment and my STBXH said we could hold off starting proceedings until I graduate in May so I can focus on my studies.

We've talked about possible settlements but I'm not very clued up about the finances and I don't know what is fair. I was a SAHM until I started my degree 3 years ago and I do occasional shift work on a zero hours contract. I did most of the childcare for 8 years but my husband has had to do more than me for the past 3 years because he has been able to work from home whereas I have had a lot of lectures in the late afternoon.

We're both in our late 30s and have about £140k equity in our house and a £250k mortgage. STBXH has a pension of around £160k. Not much else between us as money has been tight whilst I stayed at home. He recently had a big pay rise and is on about £85k but we live a long way from where he works and commuting costs are becoming a big expense for us since he had to start going back to the office for 2 or 3 days a week.

STBXH works in finance and he's said he wants to give me some choices about the settlement but wants things to be fair to him as well as me. He is very against any agreement where I stay in the FMH and him on the mortgage (he has said this would be detrimental to him and to the children when they were with him and he would only do this if he was ordered to by a court) and he has also said that there should be a time limited stop on spousal maintenance (I think he called it a bar?) He has also said I will be expected to do more than be a teaching assistant (the job I want to do) and should be aiming to earn much more than £12k by the time youngest is 11 although he has said it's ultimately my choice (but that he won't paid maintenance because I choose to earn less than I could).

We're agreed on childcare. I know it is selfish but I do want some time to myself and I think he is a good dad and want them to spend time with him. He has suggested doing 5 nights a fortnight and shared holidays as this would be 60/40 and give me some child maintenance. But he has said he will do 50/50 now or in the future if I want him to.

He has suggested we wait 3 years to sell and nest and then I take most of the equity in the family home and he has done some research with a mortgage broker who says I can get a mortgage of £200k that takes into account what I can reasonably be expected to earn by then, CM, CB and UC. He has also said he could agree to something called a "Christmas Order" to pay extra child maintenance for a couple of years to boost my income and my mortgage capacity in the years before and after needing to move. Our house costs £400k but there are slightly smaller houses for £290k that he says I could own myself without him having any ownership of the property. He says I would be better off because I wouldn't need to buy him out later. I would prefer to stay in the FMH but he has said it would make it impossible for him to be able to buy and it would be impossible for me to pay the mortgage after interest rate rises.

For maintenance, he has said he could be ordered to pay me spousal maintenance but I would lose the kind of amounts he was expected to pay against universal credit and I wouldn't be better off. So he has suggested being more generous with the pension instead (giving me just under half of it) and not offsetting quite as much for me getting most of the home equity. He has also suggested those Christmas orders whilst I adjust for four years. He reckons if I earn what I should be able to plus the other income from benefits and child maintenance that I would have nearly as much as we're living on now (as I've not been earning anything up to now and can't receive UC or CB, so all these would make the pot much bigger than just half of what we are on now). I would have thought I would be entitled to spousal maintenance until the children were 18 though? He earns a lot more than me.

I don't know whether this is fair. Do I have to work full time when youngest is 11? Couldn't I stay in the FMH until children are 18?

OP posts:
Wanderingoff · 24/12/2022 20:59

OP you are in for a world of shock when you suddenly realise you are going to have be financially responsible for yourself and not rely on a husband.

you need to see a lawyer- but I think he’s being very fair and reasonable

Bubble84 · 24/12/2022 21:19

I thought the needs of the children were meant to come first? Why should my DCs have to share bedrooms just so he can buy a house? And I'm not saying I won't work, I just want a job so I can be home when they are.

OP posts:
SocialLite · 24/12/2022 21:21

Bubble84 · 24/12/2022 21:19

I thought the needs of the children were meant to come first? Why should my DCs have to share bedrooms just so he can buy a house? And I'm not saying I won't work, I just want a job so I can be home when they are.

They have needs when they're living with him too!

Paq · 24/12/2022 21:28

Bubble84 · 24/12/2022 21:19

I thought the needs of the children were meant to come first? Why should my DCs have to share bedrooms just so he can buy a house? And I'm not saying I won't work, I just want a job so I can be home when they are.

The children will be living with him 40-50% of the time.

Divorce inevitably means a drop in living standards for both parties, unless you are exceptionally wealthy. The same income needs to run two households.

Sparklfairy · 24/12/2022 21:28

Bubble84 · 24/12/2022 21:19

I thought the needs of the children were meant to come first? Why should my DCs have to share bedrooms just so he can buy a house? And I'm not saying I won't work, I just want a job so I can be home when they are.

Don't you think they'll be sharing when they go stay with him in his house share? Come on OP, be realistic.

dogtheted · 24/12/2022 21:29

Why should my DCs have to share bedrooms just so he can buy a house?

Wow.

Wanderingoff · 24/12/2022 21:29

Why should the children share a bedroom so thst YOU can have a house OP?

i think that if you don’t accept that it is no longer your husbands responsibility to support you to stay home with the children as you want to then no negotiation will go well.

i can see him becoming much less reasonable to be honest.

is your starting position thst you think you should be able to stay in the marital home and be able to be a stay at home parent except for working a limited number of hours??

QuillBill · 24/12/2022 21:29

Bubble84 · 24/12/2022 21:19

I thought the needs of the children were meant to come first? Why should my DCs have to share bedrooms just so he can buy a house? And I'm not saying I won't work, I just want a job so I can be home when they are.

The needs of the children do come first. That's why they need to have home when they are with their father. Not a shared house. It's completely usual for divorcing couples to sell the family home so they can each start again and provide the children with some stability and a place to live.

The best thing for the children is not going to be their dad in a shared accommodation situation and you in the family home. It would be awful for them living 40% of the time with flatmates.

AnneLovesGilbert · 24/12/2022 21:33

Why are you divorcing? Did you really think your lifestyle would remain the same?

I don’t think things will remain amicable for much longer if this is indicative of your approach OP.

MintChocCornetto · 24/12/2022 21:36

You need to rethink your career plan. You cannot pay for a home and 3 kids on that sort of wage. And looking to your ex to give you more money (spousal, greater equity etc etc) so you can avoid working FT will not get you much sympathy here.

What is your degree? Could you get a bursary for PGCE and do primary teacher training with it? It's still not hugely lucrative but MUCH MUCH better than TA wages even first year qualified and there is career progression.

Soontobe60 · 24/12/2022 21:42

Bubble84 · 24/12/2022 21:19

I thought the needs of the children were meant to come first? Why should my DCs have to share bedrooms just so he can buy a house? And I'm not saying I won't work, I just want a job so I can be home when they are.

But if you had things your way, your dc would have to share a house with strangers!!! I can’t believe you’ve spent 3+ years getting a degree and only expect to earn 12k a year. Get yourself signed onto a graduate scheme and get an actual career that will pay you a decent salary. You need to think of the future - in 7 year’s time you will not get CM for your eldest. In 10 years, you won’t get it at all. You may have missed paying some NI contributions whilst not working so may not get a full state pension, and you certainly won’t get enough of a private pension to live off.
You’re sounding more and more entitled OP. You’re going to have a massive shock when the final financial settlement is worked out.

MusicstillonMTV · 24/12/2022 21:44

The needs of the children are not the same as your wants.

No need for you to have a term time job if they're with your ex for 50% of the school holidays, you can work a normal job and be on leave when they're off

MusicstillonMTV · 24/12/2022 21:48

If you get too difficult about it, he could go for 60% of time with the kids as he has been doing more childcare than you for the last 3 years and then maybe he would stay in the family home and seek maintenance from you. I would be cautious about being too greedy

IhearyouClemFandango · 24/12/2022 21:52

What's wrong with sharing a bedroom? How is that worse than an adult having to share a flat?

Someone15055 · 24/12/2022 21:57

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Jellycatspyjamas · 24/12/2022 22:05

The needs of the children are the same whether they are with you or him - they need a safe, secure home to live in. While separate rooms is nice, there’s no reason why all three couldn’t share a room if need be - but the financial settlement needs to be equal, so same or similar living accommodation at both parents not separate rooms with you and everyone in one room of a shared house with your ex. Or are you going to push him into poverty and then claim he can’t provide suitable accommodation and start to reduce contact/increase maintenance?

Either way, you’re not showing yourself in the best light here - either incredibly naive or incredibly entitled, only you know which.

caringcarer · 24/12/2022 22:09

Your best option is to.complete degree and get a full time graduate job. Part time ta pays peanuts. You would not be able to give your kids anything. If your stbex will have kids 40 percent of time and work full time judge would be expecting you do work full time too or at least be earning £25k per annum. Court will start at 50 percent of equity and 50 percent of pension. If you have children 60 percent of time you would get some maintenance. You will need to downsize and I would be astonished if you were awarded spousal maintenance as this is hardly ever ordered now. With a degree you would have own earning power separate of stbexh. Simply staying at home or only working a few hours a week will leave you and kids in poverty. You will need to step up and learn to support yourself. You would get a UC top-up if on a low wage but there will be a minimum number of hours you are expected to work. All your children are in school so you don't need to be home most of the time. If you are only planning to be a ta and earn £12k a year why bother doing degree?

Singleandproud · 24/12/2022 22:18

I worked as a TA and just about made it work financially whilst DD was at Primary school as I benefitted from not having to pay for childcare over the holidays (her dad only has her one weekend day a week). However my housing costs were minimal, I was not relying on an ex to pay my way (but am forever grateful for the government support I was eligible for in those years) and I could not afford to run a car, DDs extracurricular were cheap and within walking distance and our standard of living was nowhere near as good as it is now.

I started to cover lessons and changed role to be an unqualified teacher/ cover supervisor which pays quite a bit more than a TA £30k at the top of the pay scale instead of £12k but you are expected to do everything a teacher does including earlier starts and evening meetings, they are posts designed to allow you to gain experience in a school to decide whether teaching is for you or not before you get your proper qualification. If you have a degree I suggest you look out for cover supervisor posts instead of TA ones.

DD is now a teen, I decided earlier in the year that teaching is not for me and have had to move to a normal but hybrid full-time role which means I'm still around the house most days incase DD needs me but I'm now earning more.

AnuSTart · 24/12/2022 22:43

Oh OP. I'm not sure whether to feel shocked, sad for you, or laugh. You are being unbelievably naïve.
Why are you studying? Why do you not want to financially support yourself and your children? Why do you think your job being a mum doesn't include paying for them by working, just as your STBExH is doing?

Wow.
Get a lawyer.
Get a career plan.

Lbnc2021 · 24/12/2022 22:48

OP I was a sahm just before my exh and I separated. I had to go out and work and get a 2 bedroom house while he stayed in the 4 bedroom. He earns about the same as your husband. I now work self employed and can still do the school runs. I’ve worked my way to a good income and now all of us are happy (exh included) and settled and that includes my children who have to share a room. You can’t expect him to fund your wants and house himself, you’re going to need to get up off your arse and provide for your children and not rely on someone you don’t even want to be with.

millymollymoomoo · 24/12/2022 22:54

Wow
just wow

you are completely selfish, unrealistic and I’m for a big shock

get off your backside, go to work and provide for yourself

Starlightstarbright1 · 24/12/2022 23:03

You needtp re evaluate what you expect.

He is going to be exh.. He has supported you doing a degree.. i work 32 hrs a week nmw .. and that is more than 12k.. you need to earn more . Your yongest two will need holiday clubs , cminders or after school clubs like everyone else does.

And yes kids can share a bedroom..

Yes to legal advise but you also need to adjust your mindset.

RedHelenB · 24/12/2022 23:12

Bubble84 · 24/12/2022 21:19

I thought the needs of the children were meant to come first? Why should my DCs have to share bedrooms just so he can buy a house? And I'm not saying I won't work, I just want a job so I can be home when they are.

My kids share a bedroom. If gesture having them 40% of the time he needs a house and they no doubt will have to share a bedroom there too. The needs of the children are to have a mum and dad who ate in regular contact with them..

OutDamnedSpot · 24/12/2022 23:15

Wow.
Get your degree.
Get a career plan.
Get some pride.

unsync · 24/12/2022 23:33

What does your solicitor say about his proposal?