Is this fair?

[Bubble84]

My husband and I decided a few months ago that we should divorce. It's been amicable and we're both still living in the FMH and we haven't told the DCs (three girls aged 11, 8 and 5) yet. I'm finishing a degree at the moment and my STBXH said we could hold off starting proceedings until I graduate in May so I can focus on my studies.

We've talked about possible settlements but I'm not very clued up about the finances and I don't know what is fair. I was a SAHM until I started my degree 3 years ago and I do occasional shift work on a zero hours contract. I did most of the childcare for 8 years but my husband has had to do more than me for the past 3 years because he has been able to work from home whereas I have had a lot of lectures in the late afternoon.

We're both in our late 30s and have about £140k equity in our house and a £250k mortgage. STBXH has a pension of around £160k. Not much else between us as money has been tight whilst I stayed at home. He recently had a big pay rise and is on about £85k but we live a long way from where he works and commuting costs are becoming a big expense for us since he had to start going back to the office for 2 or 3 days a week.

STBXH works in finance and he's said he wants to give me some choices about the settlement but wants things to be fair to him as well as me. He is very against any agreement where I stay in the FMH and him on the mortgage (he has said this would be detrimental to him and to the children when they were with him and he would only do this if he was ordered to by a court) and he has also said that there should be a time limited stop on spousal maintenance (I think he called it a bar?) He has also said I will be expected to do more than be a teaching assistant (the job I want to do) and should be aiming to earn much more than £12k by the time youngest is 11 although he has said it's ultimately my choice (but that he won't paid maintenance because I choose to earn less than I could).

We're agreed on childcare. I know it is selfish but I do want some time to myself and I think he is a good dad and want them to spend time with him. He has suggested doing 5 nights a fortnight and shared holidays as this would be 60/40 and give me some child maintenance. But he has said he will do 50/50 now or in the future if I want him to.

He has suggested we wait 3 years to sell and nest and then I take most of the equity in the family home and he has done some research with a mortgage broker who says I can get a mortgage of £200k that takes into account what I can reasonably be expected to earn by then, CM, CB and UC. He has also said he could agree to something called a "Christmas Order" to pay extra child maintenance for a couple of years to boost my income and my mortgage capacity in the years before and after needing to move. Our house costs £400k but there are slightly smaller houses for £290k that he says I could own myself without him having any ownership of the property. He says I would be better off because I wouldn't need to buy him out later. I would prefer to stay in the FMH but he has said it would make it impossible for him to be able to buy and it would be impossible for me to pay the mortgage after interest rate rises.

For maintenance, he has said he could be ordered to pay me spousal maintenance but I would lose the kind of amounts he was expected to pay against universal credit and I wouldn't be better off. So he has suggested being more generous with the pension instead (giving me just under half of it) and not offsetting quite as much for me getting most of the home equity. He has also suggested those Christmas orders whilst I adjust for four years. He reckons if I earn what I should be able to plus the other income from benefits and child maintenance that I would have nearly as much as we're living on now (as I've not been earning anything up to now and can't receive UC or CB, so all these would make the pot much bigger than just half of what we are on now). I would have thought I would be entitled to spousal maintenance until the children were 18 though? He earns a lot more than me.

I don't know whether this is fair. Do I have to work full time when youngest is 11? Couldn't I stay in the FMH until children are 18?

Seriously ffs are you for real, have you lived in a SAHP bubble.
Fuck sake grow a pair and get on with it and stop winging.

He has said he doesn't want to do that but if I put him in a position where he couldn't have suitable housing for the DCs he would be forced to do it because shared housing is a red line for him 🙄 So he isn't being that generous.
What did I just read.
Sell the house. Split the money. 60/40 or 50/50 with the children. Finish your degree. Get a full time job like everyone else. Get the idea of spousal maintenance and provide for yourself and your children like he is. Work out a fair percent. Split the pension. Or you take more from the family home when sold and he takes more of his pension.

From what you've said I'd say your husband is being fair.

You don’t seem to be taking in a single word people are saying to you.

You are not going to get to keep the house AND get spousal maintenance AND child maintenance while you sit there with your feet up on a minimum wage job and he’s doing nearly half the childcare. It’s not going to happen. His obligation will be to his children, not you, so get up off your backside and start providing for yourself.

No. Just no.

Why do you think that you can carry on with your current lifestyle as is nothing has changed yet he has to work his arse off to fund you and all he has left is enough to rent a room in a shared house. You need a reality check.

Your husbands proposal sounds reasonable however you need advice from your own solicitor. Or are you expecting him to organise and fund that for you too?

He keeps pension, you keep equity from house might be fair. Might. Depends on the pension type.

He keeps pension, you keep house plus he stays on the mortgage plus he pays maintenance is never in a million years going to happen, especially with a 60/40 or 50/50 child share split.

As I said before, divorce lowers living standards for everyone in the family, unless you are super rich. The same money now has to run two households. And it will never be fair that his living standards are far below yours.

But I thought it wasn't that uncommon for one party to get the house and the other the pension?

Its not, but the person keeping the house buys the other out, eg if there’s £200k in equity you’d need to take over the existing mortgage plus half the equity to buy him out. You can’t afford to do that on your current salary so it will need to be sold and you both buy something smaller.

One person getting the house means the other stops paying for it so they can house themselves.

I have a best endeavours clause BUT for entirely different circumstances. (I work full
time and am making every effort to fulfil the clause.)

What you are suggesting seems very unfair - clauses are usually time bound so you will be living with that hanging over your head (not a nice position to be in) as well as stopping your ex husband to move forward with his life.

As others have said you really need to seek your own legal advice but I don’t think the clause would fulfil the clean break element in your case as there is not an exceptional reason to support you to not sell the family home.

Possible is not the same as likely to happen let alone will happen. Lots of things are possible here. Go and see a lawyer yourself with all the information about your financial situation. Your ex has already stated he won't agree to a mesher order, it's very unlikely a judge would agree and you'd have a long and expensive fight to get to that point. You need to be realistic, you're not disabled/ill, your DC aren't disabled and don't have SEN, the court will expect you as a competent adult, without any reason beyond wanting to be home when DC are, to work and support yourself and them.

If you are 'lucky' enough to get a Mesher order you will be expected to pay the mortgage whether you can release STBXH from the mortgage or not. You need to see a lawyer, not on a forum, and get advice on what the law is likely to see as fair in your specific situation. Your lifestyle will change, options that were available in marriage are no longer options, like working very part time for low wages. It doesn't matter what you want or what you see as fair, only what the judge is likely to see as fair.

The needs of the children are to have each parent provide financially for them. The law does not consider that any child, other than a severely disabled child needs a parent to stay at home.

You will be expected to fund the cost of whatever housing you choose by yourself. If you can’t afford the mortgage (plus insurance plus maintenance etc) by yourself you will be expected to choose a different form of housing. Even if that means renting or moving to a cheaper area or to a 2 bedroom flat. Basically you will be expected to live within your income. Maintenance can be used for luxuries like holidays. But you need to be able to cover your day to day living so you need to come up with a plan that will allow you to do that.

I don’t think there is a court in the land that would award you spousal maintenance. That is reserved for spouses who have been SAHM for 20 years and have no qualifications and who have a spouse on a very high income. Your H is being extremely generous in offering to pay some to you while you get your career going.

If you keep the house then your H will not be able to buy until he saves a deposit. That severely limits his housing options and is not fair on him or the DC as they will be living with him 40 percent of the time.

Please make an appointment with a solicitor but also reframe what is going to happen in your own mind. You need to support yourself and your DC while they are with you by yourself

Yes he would need to stay on the mortgage because I wouldn't earn enough to take it on on my own and I will need help paying it because of interest rates going up but I thought this was normal?

If you can't afford to stay in the house by paying the mortgage yourself, you can't afford to stay in the house. It really is that simple.

"Getting the house" means YOU start making mortgage payments on your own and keep the equity. You won't be able to do that on a TA salary.
He's definitely not expected to pay the mortgage and rent. if he stays on the mortgage it's because the bank wouldn't lend the money to you but you can afford the payments. You still have the problem of where to live when you're forced to sell and give him his equity.
You are expected to work as close to full time as possible. You could ask for spousal temporarily because education jobs start in September but since you need more income than a TA job, you'll need to consider higher paying gigs eg teacher training.

Even if you did somehow achieve your highly unrealistic goal, what's your plan for your old age? If you have traded away a share of his pension and work a 12k a year job, how are you going to save enough for retirement?

There is absolutely no way a judge would state that he should continue to pay and stay on the mortgage, but live elsewhere and also pay his own rent.

If you can't afford to pay the mortgage yourself and take it over then the house will need to be sold and the equity split.

If he's been the more than 50% parents recently, and wants to continue shared care, he needs to be able to house the kids when he has them with him.

My guess is that OP expects another man to come along to pay her way.

Clearly a wind up. Entertaining though.