Is this fair?

[Bubble84]

My husband and I decided a few months ago that we should divorce. It's been amicable and we're both still living in the FMH and we haven't told the DCs (three girls aged 11, 8 and 5) yet. I'm finishing a degree at the moment and my STBXH said we could hold off starting proceedings until I graduate in May so I can focus on my studies.

We've talked about possible settlements but I'm not very clued up about the finances and I don't know what is fair. I was a SAHM until I started my degree 3 years ago and I do occasional shift work on a zero hours contract. I did most of the childcare for 8 years but my husband has had to do more than me for the past 3 years because he has been able to work from home whereas I have had a lot of lectures in the late afternoon.

We're both in our late 30s and have about £140k equity in our house and a £250k mortgage. STBXH has a pension of around £160k. Not much else between us as money has been tight whilst I stayed at home. He recently had a big pay rise and is on about £85k but we live a long way from where he works and commuting costs are becoming a big expense for us since he had to start going back to the office for 2 or 3 days a week.

STBXH works in finance and he's said he wants to give me some choices about the settlement but wants things to be fair to him as well as me. He is very against any agreement where I stay in the FMH and him on the mortgage (he has said this would be detrimental to him and to the children when they were with him and he would only do this if he was ordered to by a court) and he has also said that there should be a time limited stop on spousal maintenance (I think he called it a bar?) He has also said I will be expected to do more than be a teaching assistant (the job I want to do) and should be aiming to earn much more than £12k by the time youngest is 11 although he has said it's ultimately my choice (but that he won't paid maintenance because I choose to earn less than I could).

We're agreed on childcare. I know it is selfish but I do want some time to myself and I think he is a good dad and want them to spend time with him. He has suggested doing 5 nights a fortnight and shared holidays as this would be 60/40 and give me some child maintenance. But he has said he will do 50/50 now or in the future if I want him to.

He has suggested we wait 3 years to sell and nest and then I take most of the equity in the family home and he has done some research with a mortgage broker who says I can get a mortgage of £200k that takes into account what I can reasonably be expected to earn by then, CM, CB and UC. He has also said he could agree to something called a "Christmas Order" to pay extra child maintenance for a couple of years to boost my income and my mortgage capacity in the years before and after needing to move. Our house costs £400k but there are slightly smaller houses for £290k that he says I could own myself without him having any ownership of the property. He says I would be better off because I wouldn't need to buy him out later. I would prefer to stay in the FMH but he has said it would make it impossible for him to be able to buy and it would be impossible for me to pay the mortgage after interest rate rises.

For maintenance, he has said he could be ordered to pay me spousal maintenance but I would lose the kind of amounts he was expected to pay against universal credit and I wouldn't be better off. So he has suggested being more generous with the pension instead (giving me just under half of it) and not offsetting quite as much for me getting most of the home equity. He has also suggested those Christmas orders whilst I adjust for four years. He reckons if I earn what I should be able to plus the other income from benefits and child maintenance that I would have nearly as much as we're living on now (as I've not been earning anything up to now and can't receive UC or CB, so all these would make the pot much bigger than just half of what we are on now). I would have thought I would be entitled to spousal maintenance until the children were 18 though? He earns a lot more than me.

I don't know whether this is fair. Do I have to work full time when youngest is 11? Couldn't I stay in the FMH until children are 18?

Thanks for the responses. STBXH told me I should get a solicitor because divorces that tend to go wrong when people try and do it themselves. But it's just before Christmas and I wanted to know if he was being fair.

His view on UC is I would only need the money for a very short time to increase what I could lend for a mortgage unless I didn't get a decent job so it would be my choice if I claimed it later on. He thinks if it went to court he would have to pay SM instead of extra CM which he would be fine to do but it wouldn't make me any better off and the reason this would be a problem is not to cheat the taxpayer but that my mortgage capacity would be a lot smaller. Apparently a Christmas Order would get around the CM issue because they renew once a year? But surely my job is being mum and I would only be expected to get something part time and term time only?

And he said he would have no mortgage capacity himself if he was on the mortgage for the FMH so would have no option but to take it to court because it would be a one sided outcome that he would never willingly agree to. He thinks we would both risk not retiring as homeowners if we did this.

But surely my job is being mum and I would only be expected to get something part time and term time only?

How is it that your STBXH can work full time and do 50% but you can only work part time and term time only?

It’s entirely fair you you to move out of the FMH and if he’s considering paying spousal maintenance at all then he’s clearly not being an arsehole. He’s also right that you need to improve your earning potential as much as possible. You need to be thinking long term, not just until your youngest is 18. Being a TA is a wonderful job, but if that’s all you’re planning on doing you’re wasting a lot of time and money doing a degree. As you are doing a degree, you should be able to aim for much higher than a TA wage.

But surely my job is being mum and I would only be expected to get something part time and term time only

No. You would be expected to work full time like him and use childcare as well as looking after the dc between the two of you.

Having a stay at home parent is a luxury item.

Who do you think uses childminder and holiday clubs or has grandparents have them for a week over Easter and all that jazz?

He needs to be able to own a house as well. Why do you think your job should be part time ams term time only ?
See a solicitor.

But his role is being Dad, alongside his 9-5 job. Why should your role/job be any different?

Afraid you’re going to have to be a proper grown up now OP.

your ex husband sounds like he is trying to be fair - but it’s not his responsibility to look after your finances.

Being a STAHM, part time worker, term time worker is a luxury and a choice

Your husband shouldn't have to pay for that.

You need to (kindly) put your big girl pants on here and start "adulting" - looking for jobs that financially will support yourself and your child, take responsibility for your own future financially. You seriously don't need a degree to be a TA - No offence to TAs as they do a fantastic job - but most TAs I know have re trained in later life once they had children and have done some college night courses and then placement at a school. They didn't have GCSES let alone a degree. And if I'm honest if you were my wife I'd be being a little less amicable if that was what you were aiming for job and money wise after I'd supported the family financially for years to enable you do it?

OP.

1 - you will be expected to maximise your income. This means full time, and at degree level if that's what you've been working so hard for for the last 3 years.

2 - if you can't afford to maintain the house (ie pay mortgage and bills) on your own you will have to sell it.

3 - spousal maintenance is incredibly rare, as are mesher orders, if you are lucky enough to secure it you will very likely have limited time to enable you to get yourself back on your feet again, see 1.

4 - yes you will be expected to work. Parenting and full time work are not mutually exclusive

5 g get your own lawyer.

I'm afraid the other posters are correct. You will be expected to stand on your own two feet and work full time. You need to become independent fast.

I suggest you speak to the careers centre at Uni about finding better paid careers.

Definitely get legal advice.

If you get a mesher order (he moves out but stays on the mortgage) then you'd have to pay 100% of the mortgage. If you can't then it's a non-starter. When youngest turns 18, you'd have the problem of having to give him a lump sum and possibly struggling to find a home then. He is right to say that a Mesher Order isn't fair on him as he can't get a mortgage on his own home and it's a place girls visit 40% of the time.

Spousal is for a year or two. If you split now then spousal would be fair until you'd finished your degree and has a few months to find and settle into a job. People with spousal for longer have special circumstances like a disabled child making work impossible.

You are definitely expected to do better than term time and part-time. People who work are still full-time parents. Did you really do a degree in order to become a TA? In your shoes I would be looking into jobs that pay more because your quality of life won't be great on 12k a year and expenses like a mortgage to pay. As he's having the kids 5 days a fortnight then that would be 5 days where you could earn money without paying childcare. If you go ahead with being a pa then that could be time at a second job.

OP, your H is being very very generous here.

If he did not want to pay spousal he probably would not be made to by a court. SM is rare in the UK, usually only enforced on earners over £100k. Mesher orders are also very rare.

And if he wanted 50/50 he likely wouldn't have to pay a large amount of child maintenance.

A part time term time job absolutely is a luxury. Many mums work full time and have to pay for childcare outside of school times.

You are expected to be able to support yourself. If you're only on £12k how would you intend to support yourself once all 3 kids leave education, and he doesn't have to pay you anything?

You need a solicitor.

You’ll be expected to be financially independent as soon as you can
this means maximising your earnings, working full time, using wrap around as everyone else does, or going onto benefits

youll be awarded fair share of assets, possibly in 60% range plus share of pension
solicitor will advise on realistic outcome
you are not being realistic
You cannot maintain your current married lifestyle when divorced- things change for everyone

you’ll get child maintenance based on earnings and child arrangements- he can give more if he chooses but this is the minimum

he won’t be expected to :

pay for your housing
pay long term spousal
allow you to stay in fmh if you cannot buy him out
work his arse off to allow you to be part time/term time in low paid job just be a you want to

you are being unfair

This isn’t true. The pension money is not readily accessible and the husband will need a deposit from the equity at the very least to fund his own home to house the children.

Part of being a good mum is financially supporting them. To do that you need a full time job.

Welcome to the world of a single mum.

Not legally qualified at all - but it sounds to me like your stbxh is being fair and reasonable.

I think you are upset because you dont want to lose your home, but you are going to.
Its reasonable and expected to feel upset about this - I am sure everyone in the family will feel upset about this, too.

Good luck with the future plans, new years, new start! You might feel daunted right now, but in a few years you will look back at what you have achieved, and how you have provided for your children, and feel happy and proud of yourself xx

In some ways, it's easier with divorced parents as they won't need a lot of school holiday childcare as they won't take annual leave together

STBXH said his solicitor thought a Mesher Order could happen with him paying some of the mortgage but his own view was that it would mean a choice for him of house sharing with strangers or moving back to his parents who live overseas (France). So he said a Mesher Order might mean he has to quit work and move home and I would need to cover the mortgage on my own until he could find a new job, which wouldn't pay quite as much as he can earn in the UK.

He has said he doesn't want to do that but if I put him in a position where he couldn't have suitable housing for the DCs he would be forced to do it because shared housing is a red line for him 🙄 So he isn't being that generous.

But he does need to be able to have somewhere for his children to live.

Would you want to live in shared housing while he stayed in the former marital home, have your children stay over in a house with a bunch of randoms and pay for the privilege?

Doubt it.

And would you like your children to be living in that shared house when they are living with their dad?

Or they could go and live in France while they are with him.

Genuine question: what do you think would be a fair outcome?

He has said he doesn't want to do that but if I put him in a position where he couldn't have suitable housing for the DCs he would be forced to do it because shared housing is a red line for him 🙄 So he isn't being that generous.

Sorry, you think he’s not being generous because he doesn’t want to live in a shared house while funding you to work part time in a barely minimum wage job and live in a £400k house. Seriously?

You need a reality check, he needs to be able to house himself and the children to the same standard you do, given you’re looking at 60/40 child care arrangements and he needs funding to do that. You simply can’t have the same lifestyle post divorce because two households need to be funded from the same pot.

It sounds like you don’t want to work and earn an income to fund your lifestyle, you don’t want to move house, you don’t want to be married but want all the financial benefits of being married to him.

What do you think is a fair way forward that sees him with similar accommodation to your own?

See a solicitor yourself with all the information and his suggestions. They will tell you what's fair.

1. You definitely need to consult a solicitor. He has definitely done his homework. Sounds like he has been preparing this for a while.
2. It's very unusual to get spousal maintenance now. The courts like a clean break and you have to be seen to seeking a job and will need one.
3. There are a lot of IFS in what he is saying
4. Don't hold onto a FMH you can't afford and take equity in that over a % of his pension
5. Has he had an up to date CETV of his pension?