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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Support thread for those separating/divorcing a narcissist

145 replies

Survivingeachday00 · 02/10/2020 17:55

I’m starting a support thread for those of us separating/divorcing a narcissist.

I was with DP 20 years, 2 DDs together, I am realising this is not like a normal break up. He is still trying to control me. And I stupidly miss him even though he was awful.

If anyone wants to join maybe we can all offer each other advice, support or just off load etc

OP posts:
BloodyMiserable · 08/10/2020 11:40

@Feathered - I can relate to your post so much.

Mine told me that he didn't consider himself committed to me, even though he'd asked me to move in, away from family & friends. And punished me for daring to ask for commitment by having an affair (then not telling me about it for a decade).The sheer & utter betrayal! He only said sorry a week ago (a year after we separated). Totally lacking in empathy.

And yes, not seeing me as a person with needs, just an extension of the housework & childcare, there to serve him 🤬

But on the surface he is so "nice". So friendly, affable, trades on his family guy image.

The thing that helped me the most was having counselling on my own; it was life-changing for me.

BloodyMiserable · 08/10/2020 11:43

And oh yes, functional but dysfunctional- I could write a book!!

Insomnia- tick - I think it just goes with the territory of breaking up. I was awake between 2.30 & 5am. I the past I have had a short course of Zopiclone to get my sleeping pattern back.

longhaulstress · 08/10/2020 11:49

@Feathered that's exactly it! They do draw you in he's done it to me before and while he's currently being nice it would be easy to believe him. But like you I just have to keep telling myself that he is wired differently to most people and that he is a master manipulator. He has been throughout his work life as well. He is only out for himself and genuinely doesn't care about others despite him pretending he does.

Feathered · 08/10/2020 11:58

What has been helpful has been talking to two other women who have been affected by him - both career wise. One was my best friend who started a business with him. They 'fell out' and I wasn't allowed to see her any more, and split the business. That was over ten years ago and it was so amazing to reconnect. The other was someone high up in his company who he 'forced to resign'. Both explained the same behaviour. Both talked about having to have therapy to recover and both described the same way he eroded their self esteem. It's horrible to know it's not just me but it also helps to stop the questioning of whether I am over sensitive etc.

Feathered · 08/10/2020 12:02

The other thing I'm learning is not to believe what he says but to look at his actions - particularly with regards to the divorce and his interaction with the children.
Otherwise I fall into the trap of feeling sorry for him. Which is STUPID.

Survivingeachday00 · 08/10/2020 12:56

Looking at actions instead of words is a really good idea.

OP posts:
GreyRocking · 08/10/2020 22:11

So glad I've found this thread. Feels like I'm living in complete madness, and have doubted myself for so many years..but it turns out there is a pattern for these men..it's not just mine, and it's not me.... Have all ducks in a row, solicitor has advised attempting mediation as it is the quickest route out of here. Though it's going to be hard - he's already playing the 'poor me' in sessions and contesting why he should provide this information..and often not at all.
In the meantime he refuses to leave so we're in the same house and I'm contending with Mr BrokenHearted (who if sympathy is offered thinks this means sex) or Mr FFurious...
Perfectly charming in front of anyone else though and has convinced our friends I'm mentally ill....why on earth else would I be divorcing him when he's great and loves me so much?!
Would be interested to hear how anyone else has got on with mediation in this situation. The grey rock approach is helping, but it's exhausting, and lonely.

Survivingeachday00 · 09/10/2020 06:51

I’m missing him so much 😞 at the moment he is only showing his good side and it’s so hard. I keep waking up in the night thinking that I’ve destroyed my life. Yesterday I watched a video on YouTube still stuck in the trauma bond, and this was so true for me.

OP posts:
Survivingeachday00 · 09/10/2020 06:54

Welcome GreyRocking things must be really tough living in the same house Flowers

My MIL thinks I am mentally ill, I feel for you there they do not understand they made things this way. She called me saying I have gone a bit crazy because of taking anti depressants and that my councellor has put this idea of leaving in my head when really we should have had couples councelling as they don’t know both sides of the story. It really made me doubt myself.

OP posts:
Agirlcalled · 09/10/2020 08:14

I am so glad I have found you all. I am trying to divorce a really special piece of work. I received his divorce paperwork yesterday. I had to flee with kids two years ago. Lived in a refuge until he reluctantly agreed to move out. So now we are back in family home without him. It has been joyous, but he is very very angry at me. Cold white anger that I dared to leave. It has got worse if that's possible. He is demanding the court force sale of the family home we live in ( I pay everything mortgage all household bills food, stuff for kids , have done for the past 10 years as he wouldn't get a job) asked he gets all the equity in it which is over £250k as we have been here for a while and another £150k on top. This would basically leave me and kids homeless with no means to rent or buy anywhere else. I have managed to hold onto job through pandemic so far but it is fixed term until next summer. He pays nothing in terms of maintenance. I am hoping that the court won't let him throw us out as it's near school etc, but he hates me for leaving so much I don't know what he is capable of doing. Onus is on me to prove why this shouldn't happen! Just hope it's not home schooling again with trying to work full time from home trying to keep my job. To top it all I have no family near as he did the isolation number on me. Need some support!

Agirlcalled · 09/10/2020 08:19

Oh and I forgot, I have to pay for all the expenses of the divorce.

Agirlcalled · 09/10/2020 08:44

He says!

Techway · 09/10/2020 09:11

Just found this thread and want to give you hope from the other side. I separated 4 years ago and it is only in the last year that I have felt some peace. It is a long journey but you will get there. At times I felt it would never happen.

After years of emotional neglect, financial abuse, gaslighting, manipulating and his anger I ended the marriage. I had hoped it would be amicable but he said if I divorced him he would "unleash hell on me" and he did. Not because he loved me but because I was damaging his reputation.

We went to mediation and it was traumatising. It ended up in court. I became very ill, hospitalised for surgery and he still continued his relentless battle against me. The only benefit is that family & friends who had never seen that side of him finally "got" what I had been dealing with. He threw everything at me - court for finances and children access and a horrendous smear campaign. Everything was being done to try and disrupt my happiness.

At times I wasn't sure if I could cope but here is what helped.. find some support from those who can relate to disordered individuals. There is nothing worse than being patronised by well meaning people who don't have a clue what you are dealing with.
Dr Ramani has been mentioned already and totally agree. Binge watch her videos to help you remember it is them, not you and they will not change. Get legal advice from someone who knows high conflict individuals. I didn't and I ended up financially weaker. I have had to accept that and learn to make peace. I could go back to court but judge my health over money. There is an American lawyer on YouTube who has some useful tips with how to manage legal proceedings with a narcisstic. Some points might help.

Accept your sadness and the fact you may miss them. That is because you are "normal" and you commited and loved them. That will fade over time but it takes time. Don't have guilt for being suckered in by them. I spent time thinking why didn't I see it...but I am empathic and trusting and they are arch manipulators. I have had to learn to be less naive and trust my gut instinct.

If they are being nice they are either trying to hoover you, have an self serving motive or they are getting supply from somewhere else. Ex immediately started an affair with a friends wife which they kept hidden for a considerable time. I now see some of his demands where caused by him trying to shape his life with her.

Once their affair was out in the open he flaunted it to the dcs and myself. At times it hurt but I recall how he treated me at the outset. A few years down the line I can see how she is having to serve his agenda. They DO NOT change.

I am now no contact except for essential children contact on email/text. We have zero face to face interaction which means we alternate school events. Whilst this is a loss for me and children it helps me feel safe (he became menacing at meetups).

Get rest when you can, do yoga, mediation, go out for solitary walks (I found a place in a forest where I would go and sob and then resume my day). You may need ADs as ptsd is common after narcisstic abuse but generally not needed long term.

Please trust that you will get through this. I had many dark days and read threads of normal break ups with deep sadness as felt mine was never ending but there is light.

Good luck, you are not alone and others know what you are going through

Feathered · 09/10/2020 09:33

@agirlcalled Welcome and hug. You've been having such a horrendous time. I think the thing to remember is that YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT. You need a lawyer. There is NO WAY you will have to leave the house that you are paying for. It's ridiculous. You will be able to prove what you've paid for and that you are looking after the children. He's just intimidating you. Spreak to a solicitor or go to a women's charity so that you just have someone to talk to before you speak to a lawyer. They're really reassuring and can often point you in the direction of a good solicitor for you. You are strong . . . look what you've done so far!!! You can definitely do this. Women abuse charities have phone lines. Ring them today. The threats about being homeless are abuse in their own right. x

Feathered · 09/10/2020 09:40

@Techway THANKYOU.

That's so lovely and reassuring to hear. I can't wait to feel like I'm on the other side. To be honest I can't imagine it.

The advise about speaking to people who are experienced with disordered individuals is really good - I find it difficult to talk to my friends sometimes. There is one who left her marriage a few years ago who feels we are going through the same thing and I find that so difficult. Her husband was a bit crap and didn't make her feel special. Mine is a full on psychotic scary person pretending to be dynamic, cool and fabulous.

That's why it's great to have spent some time writing on here.

Thanks again x

(Wish we could all meet up. Judging by the amount of YouTube videos, instagram accounts etc it seems that there are loads of us all experiencing the same or versions of the same, thing.)

Agirlcalled · 09/10/2020 09:42

Thank you feathered. Don't know how to tag you! I do have a lawyer, and she is one I found through woman's aid who were the organisation who found us refuge space. They are the most phenomenal people. Thank you do saying that , I was with him for quite a while so my brain is trained to think I am unreasonable and he is right! You are right the threat to make his kids homeless is just a continuation of his abuse. He just wants to destroy me now I've gone. There are some brilliant women on here and so glad I found you all. 💕

Feathered · 09/10/2020 09:46

@techway how do you manage handovers and communication? Does your ex husband live near you?

Mine is in London and I'm near Brighton, so before the pandemic I would take the children to London and hand them over to him and he'd bring them back the next day. My son has T1 diabetes so I've been extra cautious. Since the pandemic he has hardly seen them. He occasionally comes and meets them in a park. He's really angry because now the weather is turning that won't be so easy and he's looking to me to find a solution. I think he'd rather not see them, but he wants this to be my fault, not his decision. I know he doesn't love them. Not in a real way.

I have a 14 year old and 12 year old twins. I'd be interested to know how old everyone's children are. I'm thinking having three teenagers on my own is going to be hard!

Agirlcalled · 09/10/2020 10:40

@Techway your post really helps thank you. I am just at the beginning of the end as I like to see it. @Feathered I have early teens. Older one won't see him because of what he did to younger who will see him. I have to take and fetch as I don't want him accuse me of alienation.

Feathered · 09/10/2020 11:50

@Agirlcalled looks like we are in a similar situation then. I'm nervous about parental alienation, too. How old is the teen who refuses to see him? And how far do you travel so that they/she can see him?

We were doing a train journey (About 1h 15mins) for them to see him, every other Saturday morning (if he was available) so sometimes every fortnight and sometimes up to a six week gap. He would bring them back on a Sunday.

Whilst they were with him they did computer gaming and ordered delivery food. He only plays games with my oldest son, so the twins have to sit at a breakfast bar and play on their iPads. For the whole time! I really resent it, but I'm not sure what the alternative is. They aren't allowed to touch anything, or open drawers or cupboards (because they will find out he has a girlfriend who lives with him - I've got no idea where she goes when they are there).

Feathered · 09/10/2020 11:52

@agirlcalled you just type in the @ symbol followed by the name and then it tags who you are talking to. You did it in the other posts.

Feathered · 09/10/2020 11:53

Oh and just to add . . . I'm well trained in thinking I'm the bad person, too. Try to stop. It's just brainwashing.

Techway · 09/10/2020 12:24

@Feathered, it started off fine, I even went to his rented house for coffee but he got so much worse through court action that I just can't be near him. Dc get out of his car and come home and I drop off and they go to his house. If you can keep it civil for the children that is better but Ex crossed the line with his viciousness whilst I was unwell.

In reflection I think the gf ignited the situation, caused by him blaming me and playing the victim so she went nuclear to protect him. I am sure she felt she was with her soulmate and his nasty Ex was hurting him. Think we can all recall those early days when you thought he was perfect!

Remember fundamentally these are extremely weak men who have to lie, manipulate, abuse the law, intimidate to get what they need as they literally can't cope if not being given attention. Their brains are wired to lack empathy and as a result they will damage most relationships unless they keep them superficial. I now pity him but only from a distance.

It took me a long while to recover from his lies (I would shake from the shock) as I never thought he would lie on signed court papers but now I see that he had told her (& others) stories about me so had to follow through. These lies were so easily disproved that it shocked me and frightened me more. He & she were so determined to win at any cost that it was a scorched earth policy, destroying his relationship with me, my family and joint friends. These were people who thought they knew him well.

As an example, in an attempt to win residency he portrayed our dc in court so unfavourably that shocked everyone. He threatened the school with legal action and intimidated staff as he wanted to get them to back off offering the dc places. This was the school the dc wanted to attend and had told him. He even turned on the dc to try and force decisions. He dropped his case the night before court as knew he couldn't win (as Cafcass supported the children) but the damage was done.

If your dc are teens then you are fortunate. Courts will support their wishes. In the case of long distance then it's what works for the dc. It isn't your responsibility to sort logistics, just make the dc available. Out of interest who moved?

Feathered · 09/10/2020 12:55

All sounds horribly familiar.

My husband became more and more unpleasant at home, especially as the children got older and started calling him out on his behaviour (which was sometime bonkers and sometimes intimidating).

He decided to start staying in a hotel for a few nights a week because of the train strikes and because he hated commuting. He hated being at home and hated anything to do with parenting. He actually had started renting a flat with the woman he was having an affair with ( a student who was doing training at his practice - 20 years younger than him. He's 48, she's just turned 29) He had the flat for 8 months (I found out later using my now fabulous detective skills) before he told me he wanted a divorce. He told me he was leaving because he 'no longer believed in the concept of marriage'. He said he wanted to have his own version of divorce. His idea was that he'd keep the main bedroom with ensuite after he moved out, and I would stay in the guest room permanently - this would mean he would come to the house when he wanted to see the children and I would cook for him etc. A bit like a housekeeper/nanny. Not surprisingly, I said no to this idea.

So he left, in theory to live in a hotel. He was then VILE for 10 months - insisting that every weekend I should make sure the children were available to see him when he wanted at our house, when and if he wanted to come. I lived in a state of terror that he was going to turn up and the children felt they couldn't make plans. I took him to court in the end to stop him, after loads of explaining how it didn't work for us and meant we couldn't make any plans ever. Horrendous. He didn't turn up at court and just agreed to stop coming. So they've been to his flat since then. But only about 4, or 5 times since last November. He's okay with them when he sees them. He's just a bit awkward and distant. They quite like having loads of delivery food.

It's interesting that you've said the children can decide not to see him. Did I get that right?

BloodyMiserable · 09/10/2020 13:11

Am getting so kick out of this thread, thanks all.

Mine is currently manipulating the school about a non-issue that happened a month ago.

And playing the victim by hobbling with a stick - up the 1 mile to school & back to pick them up - when he could have paid for after-school club or got a cab (as I suggested). All to make me look the bad bitch who is working today - yet he has gone ahead with major surgery without even discussing it & expecting me to care for him - we broke up a bloody year ago!

And yes to going for 50-50 custody (when I have always been the primary carer). So he doesn't have to pay maintenance & looks like "dad of the year".

It's so easy to see the control & manipulation now - it took me about 10 years FFS!!

Techway · 09/10/2020 13:28

@Feathered, if a father makes an application to court for contact Cafcass will be appointed who will speak to the children. They then write a report which has a recommendation and judges usually adhere to this. If the children are deemed old enough, Gillicks competence, typically secondary school age then dc will be listened to...however cafcass have a concept that any contact is better than none and parental alienation is often used (by wealthy, white middle class fathers) and believed by (white, middle class, middle aged) judges!

So it is a balancing act, teens do not need to turn up to a schedule if it doesn't suit them but courts want to see mums promoting access so that contact is not lost completely. The assumption is that dads are always good people and both parents are equal. To be fair Ex is good if everything is going his way, such as dc parcipating in his favourite activities. They need to arrive rested, fun and no joyless tasks like homework, unless Ex wants to dazzle them with his knowledge. My dc come back like coiled emotional springs from holding in all emotions. When I suggest they speak to dad, they say "you know it won't make any difference at all"

So over the years we flex contact, Ex will accept their wishes most of the time but will rant at me if he believes I am "stopping them" from seeing him. This is realistically all he can do as he has contact, just not on his terms, he has to compromise.

Equally I keep a record of when he drops contact in favour of a better offer so that highlights contact.

My dc are learning where the line is, too little contact will cause a backlash so they do some duty visits. They will however be resolute if they have events they want to go to. Equally I suggest they see ex (as I want the break).

Dc see him for 2 weeks in the summer, mostly Eow for 1 night, extended weekends over Easter, half terms and alternative Christmas. That works for them