Stay at home mum getting divorced, need advice

[LittleMissMaghribi]

Hi everyone, I am possibly looking at the option of divorcing my husband and first need some advice.

I am a Moroccan national with Moroccan citizenship. I married my husband at the end of 2015 and we had 2 sons whilst I lived in Morocco.

My husband applied for a settlement visa for me which was granted this month and I am now in the UK.

I went to my cousins house rather than go to my husband, and I don't have any income, benefits, or job.

My husband has a job that brings in around £35,000 a year before tax.

He doesn't own a home and has about £15,000 in assets (mainly savings with about £4000 in stocks and shares) and about £10,000 of liabilities (mainly credit card debts), so a networth of about £5,000.

If I divorce him, will he be legally required to pay any of his salary to me during the divorce proceedings, so I can pay my own rent and expenses? And how about after divorce?

He also has a pension of about £20,000 if that makes a difference but is nowhere near retirement age (we are both early thirties).

After divorce, would he be required to share his salary with me and roughly how much do you think he would have to share?

My visa conditions state that I cannot claim benefits, so would not be entitled to government support, and I am not sure about if I would be able to find work. I have a degree in sociology but don't have a lot of work experience.

Since my sons have British nationality, I am looking at changing my visa to a parent visa, since I don't think I can stay on a settlement visa if we divorce. Would I be entitled to benefits?

Does anyone have experience of being the stay at home mum without an income during divorce and were you entitled to some of your husbands salary in the divorce proceedings (before and after), and was it enough to live on without additional income from benefits or work?

Please let me know your experiences in how the finances might work out in such a situation. I am a bit stressed. We are not really getting on at the moment and I need a plan B for how I can live if we can't live together going forwards.

Also, we are not currently living together. I am staying with a relative. Am I better off living with him and does that increase my rights during a divorce if we share a house? in the case of a divorce, if we are renting a property, does it matter who's name is on the rental documents, and would he be the one required to leave or me if he pays the rent, and would he still need to pay the rent for me and our sons even if he moved out?

Please let me know what my rights and responsibilities are.

Thank you for your help.

I am running an online support group for a very specific demographic (women from a particular country brought over to the UK as mail order brides, and they are often "middle class" where they come from).

This is very common in lots of countries, particularly African countries, including Morocco.

In parts of west Africa young girls compete for this 'privalige' with parades and competitions against each other in their communities with the promise of a wonderful life in the Uk. When selected, often by a man 30/40 years their senior, they arrive in the uk with feelings of expectation that the op has.

The reality is obviously completely different.

There are thousands of women in op's position. Support groups are great, do share the details. However promises of visa changes are not helpful. In 17 years of working in this area I have seen very few women get the outcome they are hoping for in any meaningful time frame. Life is a long, hard, lonely slog, complicated by all the issues poverty and vulnerability bring.

Visas that essentially grant access to £100k's worth of public money are becoming rare and rarer. The op has been in the UK for a matter of months. I have women who have lived and worked here for years with children attending school, in horrible DV situation, be refused visas multiple times.

I would urge you op not to put yourself through this and return home. You made a mistake but it doesn't have to ruin your life.

OP, he has no money. He's skint.

You'll be lucky to get £200pcm from him in CMS.

£35,000 wouldn't run 3 homes in Norfolk or Wales let alone London.

You can't get your hands on money that doesn't exist.

The op has been here for a matter of months

In fact she has been here for under a month! Which makes what you say even more compelling.

Someone I know has recently been refused a permanent visa.
He's worked on a managerial role for a number of years, is engaged to his long term partner and has a small child with her.

Another one a friend of mine shared on Facebook was a Dr who had trained and done hundreds of hours of volunteer work was rejected.

No offence but these are people who are contributing to our society.

There is no hope for someone who would only need the visa to claim every penny available in UC.

There is no hope for someone who would only need the visa to claim every penny available in UC.
She won't have access to any welfare or benefits apart from the NHS on the 10 years route.

@silvercuckoo JC that's even worse. So a whole other level of screwed then.

Visas that essentially grant access to £100k's worth of public money are becoming rare and rarer
The parent visa (appendix FM private life as a parent) does not grant access to any public funds apart from the NHS, maybe we are discussing different things? My experience (limited, and I am in no way an immigration law expert) is that they are awarded quite easily. Not without a delay, or caseworker mistakes - often takes up to one year, but if the mother has no criminal history and other issues, they are usually granted.

No, it is not at all easy to get a visa that allows you to claim benefits, silver.

We are also leaving the EU, this will happen because eejits want it to, and then you can kiss all this right to family life etc goodbye.

At least if I sit down with him and tell him what I COULD do to him, it might pressure him into doing something to at least stabalise my situation and resolving things amicably rather than trying to screw me in every way possible and leave me in a destitute position

But what exactly could you do.

The UK isn’t Morocco.

To put it bluntly what you consider morally bankrupt and would bring shame on someone back in Morocco, nobody gives a shit about here.

So what if he is committing adultery.
Nobody cares.

So what he has 5 children by 2 women.

So what if one is claiming benefits.

I don’t see what pressure you could put on him or even his ex.

If someone told you that if you got married to an English man and came to the UK you could then divorce him and take half his earnings then they are sadly wrong.

If you are in London you must have seen the rough sleepers. A lot of them are people who believed the dream and left their home country to make their fortune in England confident that as soon as they arrive they will be handed a house and money only for the reality to hit them in the face and they end up sleeping under Marble Arch and begging to make ends meet

Look at them next time. That could be your reality

He's worked on a managerial role for a number of years, is engaged to his long term partner and has a small child with her.

They need to stop dicking around and get married then.

@missminagrindlay
But that was exactly the point - all visa options open to the OP won't allow her to claim public funds. I don't know why people keep mentioning this. This visas are relatively easy to receive, as very few single parent will be able to afford to stay for 10 years without ever needing a penny in unemployment support/ free nursery hours / school dinners etc. The UK is VERY expensive if you are living outside the social security net.
Family life route is not EU law, it is UK's own internal legislation.

If someone told you that if you got married to an English man and came to the UK you could then divorce him and take half his earnings then they are sadly wrong.

I think this is exactly what someone told the OP and that's why she's finding it so hard to let go of this dream in the face of the stark reality. The OP is just another migrant who's been spun a line about what riches she can access if she can just get herself to the UK.

Go home OP. Swallow your pride and go back to your nice middle class family. You face years of poverty and fighting the system here to try and get a few crumbs from your DH who, as others have pointed out, has 5 DC to support and lives in London. I've been a single person in London on your DH's salary and I too was living in a room in a shared house. No way could I have supported two families - I couldn't even provide a home of my own for myself.

Maybe i’m a heartless bitch but the OP has had her entire life up to now paid for by someone else and seems to be looking for ways to continue this. And I just can’t find a single reason as to why a tax paying mother juggling work and family should have her life made even a tiny but harder so that women like the OP can be helped. And that is what she is ultimately asking for since there is no prospect of her husband being willing or able to support her. She should not stay here - there is no way she can afford it.

I didn't expect a life of luxury here at all, a one or two bedroomed flat with my husband and 2 kids, bills, food and clothing was all I wanted.

I don’t know anyone in a relationships with someone (let alone with 3 other children) who can afford those things on just his salary in London. You sound delusional.

At least if I sit down with him and tell him what I COULD do to him, it might pressure him into doing something to at least stabalise my situation

You talk about wanting to refer him for abusing you with threats that you will lose your visa, but you want to do the same to him. You have no upper here-there is nothing you can do to him-he has broken no laws!

Let's say £400 in child support and £400 in spousal maintenance should be borderline affordable to your ex

The courts will NOT make him pay £800 to you a month. You have been here a month and never lived even together here. This just won’t happen.

I didn't expect a life of luxury here at all, a one or two bedroomed flat with my husband and 2 kids, bills, food and clothing was all I wanted.

That is just not possible in London on 35k it’s not a overly generous salary anywhere in the UK.

How is his ex managing?

I wonder if she has been caught up in this? You seem to have an inherent dislike for her but based on what you’re saying I’d be surprised if she wasn’t in exactly the same position you are.

Basically, you don't want to work for your living. You seem to think you are entitled to others paying for your to live - your parents, the family you're with now, your husband whom you knew had a low salary and has five bloody kids, the government via benefits. I'm not surprised the family you're staying with have had enough. But well, too bad, there's no way you'll be entitled to sit around on UC, or spousal maintenance, etc bar perhaps the crumbs the CMS might throw you. Reality bites, but that's the way it goes for 99% of us.

Op to be blunt you would be better served packing up your belongings and your children and going back to Morocco. If you aren't willing to work for your living here nobody will pay for you. It is very unlikely that you will get any maintenance from your partner / husband nor is there any basis for you to claim anything from the government here. I doubt your marriage is legal and not likely to be recognised in the UK. Your visa is under threat and you would be better off going home. Cut your losses and take your children home.

How is my marriage not legal? It was completed in a Moroccan court and legal in Morocco. We did research this already, and if it's recognised in the country of origin it's legally recognised in the UK. It was provided during my visa application along with a translation, as well as provided during my sons passport applications, and no concerns or issues were raised by the home office.

Well you're about to have a hell of a lot of issues raised by the HO.

Your "husband" is probably at the very least cheating on you with his ex wife and at the worst has committed bigamy. Have you seen a divorce decree absolute ending his first marriage? Either way I think you are going to struggle to keep your visa.
Irrespective of his marital status you aren't going to get anything out of him with his relatively low salary and the fact that he already has three other children. The chance of you getting any spousal maintenance is zero and any child maintenance would be very small and not enough for you to live on. So your options are either get a job, no matter how menial and try to organise some childcare for your kids or take the children and go home to Morocco where you would be safe and be with your family.

I hate the way this thread is turning into an (implicit) version of 'let's attack the immigrant for trying to get something for nothing.'

The OP is married to a British citizen and has two British children. She came to the UK on a legal spousal visa (and believe me, those visas are not easy to get, so of course her marriage is valid or the Home Office would not have issued her with a visa!).

Looking after two preschool-aged DC IS a full-time job. Their father earns a salary that is above the average UK salary (though low for London), and it is not unreasonable for the OP to expect him to provide for his wife and children. The fact that she is looking after his children is what enables him to work full-time without paying for childcare.

Sadly, however, the husband is prick, and he is not providing for his wife and children (which is what the Home Office legally requires him to do as the husband of someone who sponsored their wife to come to the UK on a spousal visa). So the OP asked, understandably enough, whether he will still be legally required to provide for her and the DC in the case of a divorce, and if not, whether she can access benefits.

The answer to both questions is no (unless she can manage to get him to pay some child maintenance, but even then it won't be enough to live on). However there is nothing inherently wrong with expecting your DH to share his salary with you when you are looking after his DC full-time!!!

OP, if you do divorce, I don't think you can change from a spousal visa to a parent visa (parent of UK citizen children, I mean), without showing evidence that you have sufficient income to support yourself without recourse to benefits. So staying in the UK and divorcing your DH is really not a viable option for you, as others have said.

But there is no need to be judgemental and anti-feminist. The truth is that in the UK as well as in Morocco, mothers are often vulnerable in a way that fathers are not. The fact that the OP is a SAHM AND an immigrant without recourse to benefits makes her doubly vulnerable.

Op you need to stop thinking that his behaviour is in any way linked to the UK benefits system. It isn't. If his ex claims benefits she will have been assessed and a decision made by the government that she is entitled to them. It makes no difference if he is acting like a husband towards her as you put it.
Her claiming benefits or not does not affect your situation in any way at all.
You need to move past that. She is absolutely nothing to do with your current situation.

Ok.
Please come back in a year’s time and tell us how it’s going for you and your children. Because nothing anyone says here seems to be making an impression.

I hate the way this thread is turning into an (implicit) version of 'let's attack the immigrant for trying to get something for nothing.'

Completely agree. It's been a shocker.
If OP were a white Akrikaaner, with 2 British by descent kids and an English husband, I doubt she'd have had the same "reception" and been told to take the kids back to S.A.

The one point I would agree on is work.
OP, you will need to seek work. Your English is great, your measured response here shows extreme patience, customer service would be a good start to establish a work record and local references. Working would help any Visa applications, including parent or domestic violence visas.