Stay at home mum getting divorced, need advice

[LittleMissMaghribi]

Hi everyone, I am possibly looking at the option of divorcing my husband and first need some advice.

I am a Moroccan national with Moroccan citizenship. I married my husband at the end of 2015 and we had 2 sons whilst I lived in Morocco.

My husband applied for a settlement visa for me which was granted this month and I am now in the UK.

I went to my cousins house rather than go to my husband, and I don't have any income, benefits, or job.

My husband has a job that brings in around £35,000 a year before tax.

He doesn't own a home and has about £15,000 in assets (mainly savings with about £4000 in stocks and shares) and about £10,000 of liabilities (mainly credit card debts), so a networth of about £5,000.

If I divorce him, will he be legally required to pay any of his salary to me during the divorce proceedings, so I can pay my own rent and expenses? And how about after divorce?

He also has a pension of about £20,000 if that makes a difference but is nowhere near retirement age (we are both early thirties).

After divorce, would he be required to share his salary with me and roughly how much do you think he would have to share?

My visa conditions state that I cannot claim benefits, so would not be entitled to government support, and I am not sure about if I would be able to find work. I have a degree in sociology but don't have a lot of work experience.

Since my sons have British nationality, I am looking at changing my visa to a parent visa, since I don't think I can stay on a settlement visa if we divorce. Would I be entitled to benefits?

Does anyone have experience of being the stay at home mum without an income during divorce and were you entitled to some of your husbands salary in the divorce proceedings (before and after), and was it enough to live on without additional income from benefits or work?

Please let me know your experiences in how the finances might work out in such a situation. I am a bit stressed. We are not really getting on at the moment and I need a plan B for how I can live if we can't live together going forwards.

Also, we are not currently living together. I am staying with a relative. Am I better off living with him and does that increase my rights during a divorce if we share a house? in the case of a divorce, if we are renting a property, does it matter who's name is on the rental documents, and would he be the one required to leave or me if he pays the rent, and would he still need to pay the rent for me and our sons even if he moved out?

Please let me know what my rights and responsibilities are.

Thank you for your help.

Unless they had a legal marriage (civil with registrar or church) they are not married in the eyes of the law, Islamic marriages are not recognised in the U.K. unless a civil marriage also takes place (some mosques arrange for the registrar to come, mostly couples go to the registry office on another day). In the U.K. legal residents can claim benefits whilst working, in fact a large percentage of people do but you need to be British, an EU national or have indefinite leave to remain.

Please listen to our advice - stop thinking about revenge, or how you can make things worse for his ex and instead make a plan - take a job, look nationwide, there's caretaking jobs for instance which come with tied accommodation (we have one at my work, though no vacancy) and a small salary which combined with freelance translating could be a good solution. It's going to be hard until they are in school (September after 4th birthday) but gets easier after that, once you are here 5 years you can look at indefinite leave to remain, which allows you to receive the same benefits as British nationals. You can apply for child maintenance and your children are entitled to child benefit, it will be paid to their father due to your immigration status but the court will add it to your child maintenance I expect.

The alternative is to go home before he can go to court to prevent the kids from leaving. But I strongly advise you to talk to him and see if you can mutually decide it's better for you all to go home. I just don't understand why you applied for a visa etc and don't want to try to live together, the shared house situation is common in London because rent is so expensive. He's definitely persuaded you he's in a relatively better financial position than he is but if you lived as a family you can work and your income would be far better. Most women work once their youngest is 1-2 years old in London, often younger - I was an apartment manager myself and cleaned with my baby strapped to my back!

No, silvercuckoo some of us have worked extensively in schools in economically-deprived areas and seen the incredible struggle some families have to survive on a daily basis.
Scrabbling for food, clothing and basic habitable homes. Unable to pay for heating, going hungry in the holidays when free school dinners aren’t available. Even harder for first generation immigrants.
Can't see how it contradicts to what I wrote. You worked in a school and were able to pay childcare costs for two very small children out of your salary? OP's problem is not that she is unemployable - she's clearly educated and worldly - but that very few jobs will actually leave her with net positive balance when two small children are in the picture. I doubt very much that in few years her children will be economically deprived, she probably has all the prerequisites to safely land on all fours in the UK, once the initial financial strain is over.

I see this situation a lot in my professional life.

Honestly your best option here is to go back to Morocco and enjoy life for yourself there.

All you are facing here is a life of hardship and poverty. And I mean that without malice it's just the reality. You have no recourse to public funds, your visa will be cancelled on divorce. It doesn't matter that your child are British, it changes nothing for you.

There is a big misconception I see a lot that the uk supports anyone with British children. It does not. I manage expectations a lot in this area. I am never proved wrong. People spend years sofa surfing, living with relatives whilst tied up with immigration lawyers only to find themselves worse off in the long run.

OP, I think if you present your case to the family court with a clear and reasonable plan for spousal maintenance, you probably will be able to get something.
Also remember that while you are not allowed to claim benefits, your ex-to-be is, and in all fairness has to at least share the child-related component with you.
You need to think hard now what is the absolute minimum you can get on by. Let's say £400 in child support and £400 in spousal maintenance should be borderline affordable to your ex (given that he receives at least around £150 / month in child benefit). He also probably has access to credit, which you don't. If your family is able to support you with, say, another £200 / month, and you can make £200 / month with online translation work in the evenings, it starts to look feasible.
Make a clear case to the court that you expect this to last only until xx/xx/xxxx (the date when your youngest starts reception). The court is able to make an order with an absolute bar on extension.
You will have to move from London. Look at NI, for example - there are quiet towns / villages there where you can find a clean two bed flat / maisonette for £400.
Ask the court for the savings to be awarded to you. The court will probably then decide on something like 70/30 in your favour. It will be a good starting point to secure your rental.
Have a realistic plan how you are planning to become self-supporting in two to three years, step by step. The court is much more likely then to agree to your proposal, if they don't feel like you are looking for a meal ticket for life.

It doesn't matter that your child are British, it changes nothing for you.
But it does, if she's a primary carer she can switch to the 10 year parent route to settlement.

there is absolutely zero chance she will be awarded £400 pcm in sposal support based on the information she has given. Zero. Don't give her false hope, its cruel.

OP what does he do for a job? Are you sure he only earns 35,000 pa? If he is self-employed that means he could also be getting more money in from his company as dividends not PAYE. To be honest though, the fact that he lives in shared accommodation as an adult/parent would suggest not.

there is absolutely zero chance she will be awarded £400 pcm in sposal support based on the information she has given. Zero. Don't give her false hope, its cruel.
I am not giving her false hope. It is true that the courts are averse to spousal maintenance "for life", and there were a couple of famous cases recently.
They are much more open to a limited time order where there are unusual circumstances and the other party is otherwise left in an extremely precarious position. A friend got ~30% of her ex's salary as spousal maintenance for 14 months (precisely), as she was in the final year of her degree with a small child, and the court perceived that it is in everyone's interest that she graduates and immediately increases her earning potential. She was able to demonstrate a very sensible plan though.

It doesn't matter that your child are British, it changes nothing for you.
But it does, if she's a primary carer she can switch to the 10 year parent route to settlement.

Its not a case of just 'switching' though. It's appeal after appeal often taking years of being whilst reliant on the goodwill of others, only to then struggle along on benefits, minimum wage jobs in crap housing.

For some women this is better than what they would go back home to. But if you have the option of returning to a middle class environment with a nice life, it's a pretty shitty trade off.

OP why did you move here in the first place? You’ve never lived with this man, he has shown very little interest in you / your children over the years.

If you thought that being in the same country would entitle you to some amazing UK divorce settlement, you were badly advised.

You’ve been away such a short time you can say it was a holiday; take your children back to their actual home.

But if you have the option of returning to a middle class environment with a nice life, it's a pretty shitty trade off.
I agree with this. I would not be so sure that she has this option open though. If you are professionally involved in this sector, you are probably aware of this.
I am running an online support group for a very specific demographic (women from a particular country brought over to the UK as mail order brides, and they are often "middle class" where they come from). It is very common for British fathers to prevent the children from leaving this jurisdiction through port alerts / prohibited steps orders, even if they have zero interest in maintaining contact with the children. Threats to cancel the visa, as OP describes, are also textbook - note that in the UK it is sufficient for the husband to say that he simply considers the relationship to be over, and the visa will be immediately curtailed, even if there's no petition for divorce.

OP's problem is not that she is unemployable

Is she? Really?

A foreign national with uncertain residency with childcare issues, no work experience and a pointless degree.

Honestly what field would want that? Fresh graduates with 1st class degrees a applying left right and centre for jobs in McDonalds and Bars.
What does OP actually have?

I think people are being unduly harsh to you, OP. Your H is clearly an arse. He has created a second family he is unwilling to provide for and he is not treating you as an equal partner.

But practically speaking, from an immigration point of view, your situation is dire as people have said. You have come to the UK at a time when the country is extremely hostile toward immigrants. Creating a 'hostile environment' and excluding as many people as possible is official government policy.

I came to the UK myself as immigrant with a baby to join my DH on a spousal visa. Even with a supportive husband, it's a difficult position to be in. The woman is vulnerable because her right to stay in the UK depends on the marriage succeeding.

In your position I would absolutely return to your home country, where you have a better family network of support. You are not alone in feeling ashamed to return this is a known phenomenon among immigrants, both men and women, who realise that their dream of migrating for a different life has not worked out as they hoped, and that they would actually be better off in their country of origin. Please don't let shame stop you from doing the best thing for yourself and your children. You can hold your head high, you have nothing to be ashamed of your husband does.

Please also abandon thoughts of revenge. Of course you are angry, but you must put yourself and your children first. Making your husband suffer has no practical purpose and will only divert your precious time and energy. Your husband has not treated you and the children well from the beginning and he will not change now.

My main worry if I were you would be whether or not you have the legal right to take your children back to Morocco. Please get legal advice to determine this.

The sad truth is that you're unlikely to get any financial help from your husband and you certainly will not get any from the UK government. Even UK citizens are having crucial benefits stripped away. The sooner you are free of your husband, the better.

You are educated and your English is excellent -- certainly these will be advantages to you if you're looking for work in Morocco?

Be brave and decisive -- recognise that your gamble of coming to join your husband in the UK has not worked out, and act accordingly.

In my city there are charities who help immigrant women. There must be similar charities in London. Perhaps through them you can get advice on how to leave the UK and maintain custody of your children.

You have my sympathy OP.

I didn't expect a life of luxury here at all, a one or two bedroomed flat with my husband and 2 kids, bills, food and clothing was all I wanted. This is enough to feel secure and stable and focus on raising my kids.

Returning home is difficult for cultural reasons, and it would still be a burden on my family. They didn't expect to take care of me my entire life. If I can find a way to be secure and stable here, it will be good. At least I can explore all of my options now and think about possible routes forward.

What I mean by married without paper, is that him and his ex wife marriage in a religious ceremony, but not by the law. So when we got married in Morocco, he did not need to provide a divorce document, and the certificate of no impediment was provided by the UK embassy without issue.

So legally he is not married. He had told me he was divorced, but either he lied and was never truly divorced, he returned to his wife, or at minimum they have still had some sexual relations.

When he was visiting his kids, he was staying there sometimes. She knew he had remarried. My family said its likely she will be claiming working tax credits. So would this be against the law to claim if he's still acting like a husband to her?

I know you are telling me not to be bitter and move on. But my entire life is insecure and unstable at the moment. At least if I sit down with him and tell him what I COULD do to him, it might pressure him into doing something to at least stabalise my situation and resolving things amicably rather than trying to screw me in every way possible and leave me in a destitute position.

Regarding his job, he is telling the truth. In Morocco, when you marry, you need to provide a work contract, bank statements, pay slips etc. The same for when you apply for a settlement visa to the UK. So I have physically seen all of his situation paper many times.

I know he has a permanent contract with a company earning £35,000 before taxes. So whatever people have advised me before, from a financial perspective, is likely going to be correct.

No it wouldn't be illegal. Get over her she is nothing to do with you.

If you returned to your country you could get a job surely!
You would be eligible for any state support and at least you would have temporary family support. Would someone be happy to help with childcare?

Forget about cultural shame you don't have that luxury. Your children have needs. Yes their father is a twat but that won't help you now.

OP, a lot of us would like the life you described - a flat, bills paid, money for new clothes etc The British reality is that the only way most people have that - especially in London - is by both parents working, alongside tax credits and free childcare allowance at 3.

Your husband's first "wife" isn't breaking the law. She doesn't live with him-she's in a different city.

Your husband is also not breaking the law. You could possibly expose him to the imam-but that's it.

I know you don't want to hear this, but you have NO cards here. NONE.

You are incredibly vulnerable to an order of deportation. Even without your husband cancelling your visa. As I said to you yesterday, you need an immigration lawyer to give you advice. URGENTLY.

In English, we say that revenge is a dish best served cold. Don't let your desire for vengeance end up completely damaging everything about your life, as it's threatening to do now.

At least if I sit down with him and tell him what I COULD do to him, it might pressure him into doing something to at least stabalise my situation and resolving things amicably rather than trying to screw me in every way possible and leave me in a destitute position.

But you can't do anything to him! You just don't seem to get that! You can't do a thing to him. He earns very little for a man who has 5 kids and lives in London. The Child Maintenance Service here is a joke. He does not have to provide for you at all and if you divorce him all you can get is perhaps a tiny bit of maintenance, if at all, he can quit his job, go on Universal Credit and you'll be a fiver a week tops.

If I can find a way to be secure and stable here, it will be good. At least I can explore all of my options now and think about possible routes forward.

You have to get a job. You have to work here to get what you want. He won't provide it and nor will anyone else or other agency here. And stay married to him until you get your permanent residency.

You keep on looking for something that's not really there.

is by both parents working, alongside tax credits and free childcare allowance at 3.

And now, the tax credits are going, going, gone. It will all be UC within two years.

You want a life that people have to work for, OP. And many who do still don't get it. That is reality in London and the UK.

I can't get over the fact that you have only just arrived in the UK, and your DH is already treating you like this. To me it seems like a no brainer to acknowledge that you have no future here.

You're looking for threats you can hold over his head and manipulate him with, but honestly, that route is useless. Morally your husband is utterly wrong, but legally, I don't think he has done anything wrong.

If I were you I would try to get him on side and get his official consent to take the DC back to Morocco. Then cut him out of your life.

Honestly what field would want that?
I think I was clear that it is impractical for her to work while her children are under the school age (and she won't get free hours either).
There are jobs for which there is little competition from grads as they are not trendy / promising in terms of career. A part-time / school hours phlebotomist (couple of days of training) in a small regional hospital will totally be able to make a living, if topped up by statutory child maintenance from the father and being on call for Arabic / French NHS emergency hotline for one or two night shifts a week.

When he was visiting his kids, he was staying there sometimes. She knew he had remarried. My family said its likely she will be claiming working tax credits. So would this be against the law to claim if he's still acting like a husband to her?

No, it's not against the law at home. He stays there 'sometimes' is not the same as a domestic partner. You also have no idea if she's claiming anything and it's none of your business.

You have NO cards.

I know you don't want to hear this, but you have NO cards here. NONE.

You really really really need to read @Hefzi post again.

You keep trying to get the upper hand when you should be terrified of the cards he could deal you.
You threaten him....
He revokes your visa and then goes to court to ensure you can't take the children back to Morocco.
He is then made to give you £300pcm so you think you've won?

But you are then fighting immigration, you can't claim any benefits, you can't get a job, and you have no money.

I'm not trying to kick you when you're down. But you really need to realise how vulnerable you and more importantly your children are right now.

I’m gonna come right out and say this. Your post reads like you married a British guy to get a better life and it’s bit you on the ass, hard! Tell him your going home and taking the kids. If he lets you it least you know where you stand.

I don't know how anyone can be so educated and think a guy with five kids on £35,000/annum in London is going to be able to provide a nice flat, bills paid, clothes, etc. whilst she stays at home with the kids.

That's not even a big salary in cheaper areas of the UK when you have five kids to support.

Go back to Morocco. Tell people your husband died (so you don't have to deal with the shame and find away to support yourself with family support.

Don't stay here and risk losing your children to someone who isn't interested in them.