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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

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Original poster

Child access

145 replies

Lettucepray · 25/01/2018 20:15

My ex is not allowed to see our daughter , since last June because of his drinking and mental health. Cafcass are very supportive of me and very concerned about my ex and his ability to parent appropriately. He is allowed phone contact twice per week fir the last few months. He has been recording these conversations despite being told he should not because it is emotionally abusive. Final hearing in Feb. Have a letter from his solicitor which details a nightmare our daughter had about me and says this is evidence that not having contact is emotional abuse? Our daughter is absolutly fine and happy, Cafcass have no issues what so ever with my parenting. I am very tempted to cease phone contact until the final hearing, I am livid that he has continued to record his conversions with dd. It is further evident to me of his inability to put dd needs before his own. He has long history of mental health issues and is diagnosed with borderline personality disorder some years ago. I believe he has cluster b personality disorder which incorporates anti social and narcissistic personality disorder. Cafcass agree with me, I am.hoping the judges agree too. Any advice??

OP posts:

user1471451564 · 02/02/2018 16:13

Yeah i can't quite get past the 'victim' blaming some people seem to feel justified in doing on this thread. Simply because they don't like the way op has written her thread. Ffs people! He was, is and probably always will be abusive and manipulative. I'd be pretty curt and fed up sounding too if i was trying to block myself from it as well as protecting my child! Op i don't think your in any way shape or form off the mark here. Imagine the posts if you said you'd
you were going to allow contact etc to continue regardless of his behaviour? Fuck me you'd be being slated then too! (And rightly so). This appears to be one of those post where u r damned if you do, damned if you don't!!!!

ChaosNeverRains · 02/02/2018 16:13

bring but this is an OP where the contact between the child and the parent has been stopped by the courts save for one phone call once a week due to the fact the DP is abusive, is an alcoholic and has severe mh issues. Are we really to believe that because someone writes something in a certain way, having been the victim of said abuse and the other parent of said child that posters should only take the way her words are written and start accusing her of having her own agenda here. That those posters can’t possibly imagine that the OP has reached a breaking point, having found the courage to leave her abuser,go through the courts to stop him from abusing her daughter, only to discover that he’s been secretly recording his phone calls to her in the hopes of getting back at the OP?

What about the incredibly aggressive poster on this thread who stated in her last post that she’s been there from the other side? Perhaps one ought to question whether she in fact has her own agenda of bitterness which she has used the OP’s thread to live out?

And there are ways of disagreeing with the OP i.e.by not accusing her of deliberately trying to sabotage the DD’s relationship with her abusive father because “doesn’t she love him?” By not accusing the OP of being a narcissist and gleefully telling her that the courts will be handing her arse to her....

windchimesabotage · 02/02/2018 16:21

oh my goodness! I think you were totally right to tell your daughter op! Its not like you were casually badmouthing her father to her, its a fact he was recording her calls and she has a right to know that what she is saying is being recorded.
If he didnt do such a stupid thing that affects her then you wouldnt have had to mention it. He is the one at fault not you. You had to tell her otherwise she could have gone on speaking to him with no idea she was being recorded when both you and he did know. Thats the most abusive scenario of all so well done for protecting her from that.
I do agree children shouldnt witness whatever is going on between their parents but he has put her in the middle by recording her, not you, so I really dont understand why PP are blaming you for 'upsetting her'.

I would stop all contact. You have support and it risks seriously damaging her for her to be used by her father like this. He shouldnt be using contact as a way to get what he wants out of the situation. He clearly cant put his daughters welfare over his own concerns.

ChaosNeverRains · 02/02/2018 16:26

I think the victim blamers have their own agendas tbh.

If he’s been threatened with prison if he records again then it’s very clear that the authorities take it very seriously indeed.

i am usually one of the contact-at-all-costs types except when e.g. extreme violence and criminal activity is concerned, but every situation has its limits.

ChaosNeverRains · 02/02/2018 16:29

Fwiw OP I have reported this thread and asked MN HQ to look at it in terms of the responses, as there were too many to report them individually. But have named respondents on my report. I hope that this doesn’t get the thread pulled but if it does then it will be understandable and will be because of them not you iyswim.

RockPaperCut · 02/02/2018 16:34

If you’re shocked at the victim blaming here, try going to court and being told by the judge that even though your STBXH has admitted abusive behaviour, you remained married and went on holidays with him etc. So somehow it can’t have been that bad.

Youre damned if you do and damned if you dont

Exactly.

Original poster

Lettucepray · 02/02/2018 16:38

windchimesabotage

Thankyou, and thanks for all supportive posts! I have been in this for over 9 years since I've known my ex, and have fully supported their relationship for over 6 years at cost to myself I might add. But when he brought her back drunk, that was it for me and I don't regret it one tiny bit. He's probably not going to get to see her for some considerable time, because Cafcass want to see some stability and are unwilling to take his word for it. If he'd stopped drinking as easily as he has now, all those years ago then I will be asking why he didn't.....if his mental health is fine now, what the heck was the last 9 years about??? Of course I don't believe any if it, borderline personality disorder does not simply disappear, not to mention he's on PIP for extreme mental health issues.

OP posts:

Bringonspring · 02/02/2018 16:43

Choas I don’t get the aggression to my post. OP has been proved right that the calls shouldn’t be recorded but also that her DD who OP says loves can still chat to her father once a week.

None of this is optimal not for OP or her DD go but as far as outcomes it’s ok. I imagine the courts will stay involved and if the ex behaviour gets worst then this contact will be ceased also.

Optimally of course the ex becomes a reformed character......

Original poster

Lettucepray · 02/02/2018 16:56

The courts also agreed with my telling her about the recordings because in their words ' what else was I supposed to do?'. So had a little chat with dd on way home from school and told her she is allowed to talk to daddy again. She asked if she could have a little break from talking to daddy. I asked why and it seems she was finding the length quite difficult (1hr+), so I've said if she wants to talk to daddy I will make sure it's for as long as she wants, she can signal me and I will step in to end the call. She says she doesn't want to hurt his feelings........omg this is so bloody hard!!

OP posts:

ChaosNeverRains · 02/02/2018 17:08

Apologies bring my response was meant to be in response to rock’s part of the poast that stated that posters might read something else into a thread if the OP comes across wrongly iyswim. Apologies for quoting you instead :-)

OP I think that phone calls are so bloody hard anyway where kids are involved because ime talking to kids on the phone is like pulling teeth as usually they’re distracted/looking at other stuff/thinking about wanting to go back out to play etc and I’m not talking about generaly abusive parents either just about kids in general on the phone....

I wonder whether a strategy could be for you to say to DD that daddy wants to call her, that you understand her wanting to take a break from it but that he wants to know how she is etc and then maybe she can tel him she’s got nothing much to say or whatever. If he’s dragging the phone calls out to an hour at a time and she’s finding that hard then I would encourage her to articulate that at the time. In that instance you do need to be careful about you being the one to control the length of the call iyswim.

Original poster

Lettucepray · 02/02/2018 17:16

ChaosNeverRains

Yes but clearly she is struggling and cannot articulate....the actual Cafcass recommendation was for 15 mins so perhaps I'll just stick to that if I can get her to agree to phone call? Let's not forget he is the one who has broken her trust by invading her privacy....

OP posts:

ChaosNeverRains · 02/02/2018 17:38

I do understand that, but at this point the courts have agreed to phone calls and it would be wise to tell her that the judge told him not to record her again so that she knows that her interests are being looked out for.

If the Cafcas recommendation was for fifteen minutes then he was presumably there when that recomendation was made in court so keeping to that is understandable.

But remember this is someone who is prepared to use whatever he feels he can to get back at you, so don’t give him anything to work with in that regard iyswim.

Bringonspring · 02/02/2018 17:40

Chaos-no problem-I did wander.

I agree on an hour a child’s attention at that age is hard work at any activity.

Good idea OP on letting her drive the length of them. Though you have to try and get your ex to understand that your DD is driving the length and not you underminding him. Based on how you have described him this may be a challenge.

Original poster

Lettucepray · 02/02/2018 18:06

I know, that's why it is now all very difficult. It is dd's needs that have to come first though, not his. I will try and get her to talk to him on contact day, but as she now no longer trusts him I don't know how it will go. He'll always use anything he can against me, he's lost that control and I am now the enemy, narcs really don't like losing control and I worry what the future will hold. He used to enjoy getting dd to disrespect me, and to be naughty and not follow the rules.......he thinks he's a free thinker and most other people are mindless sheep. He's such a dick!

OP posts:

InkyPunkyGothyPoo · 02/02/2018 18:11

I am not sure he would be allowed to use the recordings as evidence in court, as they have been taken without permission of the child.

I would ask Cafcass if they can advice you whether to stop the phone calls until the final hearing. It may be seen as a breach of the court order, or the judge may understand why you have stopped it. I guess you have to tread carefully or it can be used against you.

RockPaperCut · 02/02/2018 18:15

Chaos I’m not good at explaining myself, I hope you didn’t think i was making any excuses on behalf of the posters above. That wasn’t my intention at all. I was simply saying that posters come to their own conclusions based on their perception of what they think the situation is. If you come across as frustrated or angry then they assume the issue lies with you and that you’re being hostile.

Original poster

Lettucepray · 02/02/2018 18:16

InkyPunkyGothyPoo

He's not allowed to use recordings, been in court today
Cafcass advised to stop phone contact and the courts have restated phone contact on the premise that he doesn't record.

OP posts:

ChaosNeverRains · 02/02/2018 18:22

No worries rock I was at the tone the thread had taken tbh especially from one poster in particular who it seems clear has their own agenda from the other side.

Original poster

Lettucepray · 02/02/2018 18:40

RockPaperCut

See that's why it's wrong for some to have blamed me....I have every right to be angry, and even more right to express that anger. Too often women are silenced, told to be calm and submissive. He used to tell me not to be angry too but again he was also trying to silence me. People should look at the facts, some posters didn't, they just tried to tell me I was wrong.....I wasn't.

OP posts:

SD1978 · 02/02/2018 21:29

I’m glad you’re happy- has anything actually changed with the court date? He wasn’t allowed to see her, still isn’t allowed to see her, and is still entitled to the weekly oho ecall, which she now doesn’t want to participate in? Will there be any comeback on you if your daughter refuses to speak to him?

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