Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Child access

145 replies

Lettucepray · 25/01/2018 20:15

My ex is not allowed to see our daughter , since last June because of his drinking and mental health. Cafcass are very supportive of me and very concerned about my ex and his ability to parent appropriately. He is allowed phone contact twice per week fir the last few months. He has been recording these conversations despite being told he should not because it is emotionally abusive. Final hearing in Feb. Have a letter from his solicitor which details a nightmare our daughter had about me and says this is evidence that not having contact is emotional abuse? Our daughter is absolutly fine and happy, Cafcass have no issues what so ever with my parenting. I am very tempted to cease phone contact until the final hearing, I am livid that he has continued to record his conversions with dd. It is further evident to me of his inability to put dd needs before his own. He has long history of mental health issues and is diagnosed with borderline personality disorder some years ago. I believe he has cluster b personality disorder which incorporates anti social and narcissistic personality disorder. Cafcass agree with me, I am.hoping the judges agree too. Any advice??

OP posts:
Alittleconcerned1980 · 27/01/2018 08:07

cathf
Nailed it

Oooocrikeyitscold · 27/01/2018 08:15

Yes im with cathf

I have said repeatedly on here and you haven’t acknowledged yet; your daughter loves her father and wants contact

Despite all of the father’s issues he still wants to see his daughter (many men don’t bother with their DCs with no issues in their life)

My interpretation of the father recording the calls is a desperate father desperately trying to maintain contact with his child.

I’ll go further (based on your aggression) to say the reason your angry is because the calls contradict the perception you gave the court of your ex. This is why your cross. I’ll guarantee that they show a loving relationship because you said you don’t listen to the calls (you wouldn’t not listen to them if his really the man you say he is)

Oooocrikeyitscold · 27/01/2018 08:18

Ultimately OP however cross you are with OP (and I do believe you when you say he has been incredibly difficult to be with/don’t approve of how you have been treated) you need to be able to look your daughter in the eye and say ‘I did everything I could to make sure you had a relationship with your father’
M

Yettilegs11 · 27/01/2018 08:28

Wow... the OP is getting a really tough time here.

Sometimes we have to be honest with our children. If the OP had been advised to stop contact the child would want to know why.

OP you know your ex and he doesn’t seem to be in the best frame of mind for putting his/your daughter first. Recording the phone calls so he could use anything as ammo against you.... a nightmare! really?

Speak to your solicitor and follow their advice. The courts (from my recent experience) push for contact with the other parent, sometimes left me feeling that that was the priority above all else.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 08:29

I have..for 6 years i put up with alot. What I suggest you do is some research into children or alcoholics, children who suffer emotional abuse by witnessing abhorrent behaviour form parents, children who grow up with one parent who has no boundaries, no emotional control, outbursts, name calling, to name but a few. Then come back and tell me whether i want my daughter to have a relationship with her dad. I do, hello 6 years......but I'm not prepared to damage her for it. You are part of the problem.

OP posts:
cathf · 27/01/2018 08:29

And at the moment, the OP can not do that Ooocrikey, because she is doing everything she can to stop contact. That's right, isn't it OP?
The OP may well have got away with this type of behaviour a decade ago, but I believe courts are supposed to be more enlightened these days, so I think she is in for a nasty surprise.
I am also suspicious of the unquestioning support she seems to be getting from CAFCASS and I think it is extremely unlikely that her interpretation of their responses is correct. Would CAFCASS really tell her to stop contact if the daughter was enjoying her conversations with dad? I doubt it.
I think you are deluding yourself OP. I don't doubt he was an awful partner, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is a rubbish dad. And that - despite all your efforts - will be that basis for any court decision.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 27/01/2018 08:33

But it isn’t always in the best interests of the child to have a relationship with their father. What’s in the best interests of the child might involve protecting her from her father and preventing contact.

As someone who has an emotionally abusive parent who did almost exactly this, I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong here. It’s a huge betrayal of trust and I suspect she would have found out about it sooner or later. I doubt he’ll be able to stop himself telling her.

You either stop the phone contact without telling her why or stop it and do tell her. I think carcass might be right about the second option.

cathf · 27/01/2018 08:36

I don't believe CAFCASS would have advised stopping contact on the basis of this story.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 09:33

cathf

Seriously, shut up! They HAVE but I do not need to prove it to you. I suspect you're one of 'those' people who like to believe that dad's rights are paramount, despite a few snippets of the abuse we have suffered that I have divulged. Perhaps you'd also allow a damaging individual into your children's lives, the type who would call his daughter 'fat', the type who would call her mother a 'filthy cock sucking whore' infront of the child. But thankfully I am her mother and not you and I will protect her by taking these actions. You are free to believe what you like, despicable, ignorant and stupid as your opinions are.

OP posts:
MrsBertBibby · 27/01/2018 09:43

OP, I really don't think this thread is helpful to you. You seem confident you're doing the right thing, so not sure what more you wanted?

You do come over on here as very aggressive and angry. Neither are likely to be helpful to you in court despite what you have been through so I think you need to try a calmer approach there.

Good luck.

cathf · 27/01/2018 09:49

You do not present as a sensible and rational person at the moment Lettuce.
You present as someone on a mission to halt contact in any way you can, and if you go on in court the way you are here, the judge will pick up on this.
I will not shut up because I am not saying what you want to hear - this is an open forum, you have asked for opinions, I have given mine.
If you were serious about your daughter having contact you would grab what she has now with both hands - it is indirect, within your control and you are at liberty to hear the whole thing if you want to.
Instead, you seem determined to go down the path of no contact whatsoever, and are convinced you will be supported by CaAFCAS and the court to win this. I think you are unlikely to get a no contact order, but as I said upthread, crack on.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 10:02

Well contrary to your well informed 🤔 opinion the courts do not take kindly to recording conservations without consent and furthermore they definitely don't like it when the person has been court ordered NOT to do it!

Yes I am angry, angry that I came in here for some advice and support and have been told I have no rights to stop contact, that what he's doing ain't all that bad.....🤔 I have been waiting for the 'well it's all your own fault anyway ' line but I don't suppose it's all that far away. I posted before I had spoken to the Cafcass officer so although I did suspect she would unequivocally support my decision, I wasn't 100% hence my reason for asking and hoping someone could clarify the legal position.

Just so you know, I was able to PROVE emotional, financial and verbal abuse, which is why the court ordered no contact and why I get legal aid. Furthermore, this kind of abuse is now a criminal offence and is deeply damaging to all involved.

OP posts:
Yettilegs11 · 27/01/2018 10:33

OP do what you think/know is right. If you are wrong the court will put you right.

I am sorry you haven’t received the support you need.

Carry on doing what is right for you and your child.

I would ask for this thread to be killed off. I hope you get the support you need inRL.

MrsBertBibby · 27/01/2018 10:38

OP I Don't think anyone here has suggested that him recording conversations is OK.

As a matter of law, neither you nor the CAFCASS officer have the right to stop his contact, only the Court can do that. It is possible, maybe even likely, that a court would (on any enforcement application by him) find that you had good reason not to comply, that's a risk you can take, but you really should be putting in an application to suspend contact, not just stopping it. Even if the trial is imminent.

What seems hard to explain to me is the decision to tell your daughter. If she hadn't been told, the contact which she was enjoying could have continued until the Court could make a measured decision. Including considered advice on what your daughter should be told if contact were ordered to stop. By telling her now, all that has been pre-empted.

And that is a well-informed opinion, based on 20 years as a family solicitor.

Of course no one here knows all the details of your case, quite rightly, but based on your posts, that's my view.

cathf · 27/01/2018 10:46

My 'well informed🤔' decision is based on 7 years of the family courts, when my dh faced an ex every bit as entrenched and bitter as you, so I am talking from some experience, despite what you think.
The difference is that while back then - 10 years ago - you would probably end up getting your own way, I believe the courts are more enlightened to alienating behaviour nowadays.
Yes, you ex was a abusive husband, but I am afraid that does not automatically mean you are entitled to be the only parent in your daughter's life. As I have repeatedly said, I think you are deluded that CAFCASS would support your actions, and I think you are in for a shock in court.
But you know you are right, no question, so I am not quite sure what the point of you post is, other than a random rant.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 10:56

cathf

You are right of course, the courts do indeed allow abusive men into their children's lives, with dire consequences for the children involved. But that is an entirely other thread. I see now why you have your views, you are likening MY case with YOUR case but I'm afraid your deluded bitter brain has failed to grasp MY case is entirely different from yours and I am not a bitter mother who wants to do this on my own. Now, because you appear to struggle with the written word I am going to speak very loudly EXCELLENT ACCESS FOR SIX YEARS....... Jesus fucking christ!!

OP posts:
cathf · 27/01/2018 11:02

Whatever.
If you think behaving like this is doing you any favours, you are mistaken.
Still, as I said, despite what others have suggested, you are adament you are right, so you should have no concerns about court.
I only hope the judge does not question you, as you seem incapable of arguing your point without being abusive, which is ironic, given the situation with your ex

Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 11:03

MrsBertBibby

The courts did stop face to face contact. I am stopping phone contact on the premise that a) he was told to not record (by the courts) and b) It is emotional abuse.

Now, in your capacity of family law involvement I'm sure you can see that the courts are going to take a very dim view of HIS actions, since it is HIS actions which have lead to current events. Let's also not forget I have the full backing of Cafcass, who are extremely influential in court proceedings, plus my solicitors backing with 40 years experience. Thanks for your input but I am 100% behind my actions and more than willing to accept any consequences which may come my way.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 11:07

cathf

And YOU have NO idea about domestic abuse or its effects, like I said, Women's Aid have some excellent resources.

OP posts:
MrsBertBibby · 27/01/2018 11:13

Thanks for your input but I am 100% behind my actions and more than willing to accept any consequences which may come my way.

That's great. So why the thread?

Genuine question, I don't understand why you felt the need to ask for advice, as clearly you Don't actually need it.

cathf · 27/01/2018 11:16

You clearly are absolutely convinced you are right, so it doesn't matter what others think, does it?
Suggest you tone down the insults and hyperbole in court as it makes you sound deranged.
Good luck ( although you obviously don't need it)

Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 11:38

MrsBertBibby

Because as mentioned....... 😉 When I posted I had not heard back from Cafcass. Plus I thought I might get advice or support from others who had been through similar.......silly silly silly me..........

OP posts:
Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 11:40

cathf

Oh dear, don't worry my ex provides the entertainment in court.......it's a narcissists dream !

OP posts:
MrsWobble3 · 27/01/2018 11:41

OP. From what you have posted I can see why direct contact is not an option as he doesn't seem able to look after her safely. But I don't understand why a weekly phone call is damaging. Presumably she enjoyed them as it would be very odd for him to try and use recordings of a distressed child.

I can see why the calls are upsetting for you, but unless you are sharing that emotion with your daughter (which you shouldn't), I would have thought the court would encourage them.

Alittleconcerned1980 · 27/01/2018 12:28

How are you so sure he is recording the calls?