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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Child access

145 replies

Lettucepray · 25/01/2018 20:15

My ex is not allowed to see our daughter , since last June because of his drinking and mental health. Cafcass are very supportive of me and very concerned about my ex and his ability to parent appropriately. He is allowed phone contact twice per week fir the last few months. He has been recording these conversations despite being told he should not because it is emotionally abusive. Final hearing in Feb. Have a letter from his solicitor which details a nightmare our daughter had about me and says this is evidence that not having contact is emotional abuse? Our daughter is absolutly fine and happy, Cafcass have no issues what so ever with my parenting. I am very tempted to cease phone contact until the final hearing, I am livid that he has continued to record his conversions with dd. It is further evident to me of his inability to put dd needs before his own. He has long history of mental health issues and is diagnosed with borderline personality disorder some years ago. I believe he has cluster b personality disorder which incorporates anti social and narcissistic personality disorder. Cafcass agree with me, I am.hoping the judges agree too. Any advice??

OP posts:
MrsBertBibby · 27/01/2018 13:11

His solicitor sent them to CAFCASS.

Which really is a whole world of wrong.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 13:14

Alittleconcerned1980

Because his solicitor has sent the recordings to Cafcass.........

OP posts:
Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 13:19

MrsBertBibby

That is typical of such as he, he is so delusional or evil (I'm not sure which) that he actually believes his actions are beyond reproach. Bit like years ago when we went on a caravan holiday, because I didn't want to get shit faced drunk and keep my then baby up till 2.00am we had a row, he went and got very drunk, we fled to a nearby hotel and he wrecked MY caravan when he got back because we'd gone. But still some will choose to defend him and attack me.....mind boggles!!

OP posts:
cathf · 27/01/2018 13:30

I think we have established he was a terrible husband Lettuce, you have given plenty of background
If all you say is true, it is clearly not in your daughter's interests to have direct contact, at least until your ex can demonstrate he can behave.
But I think if he were to apply for supervised contact in a contact centre, I think the court may accept that as something to work towards.
I also think - as I have repeatedly said - the court will continue to order telephone contact, as this is not exposing your daughter to any danger.
You regard his recording the conversation as abusive, he might well regard it as proof for the court that he has a good relationship with his daughter. He might be desperate because he knows how determined you are to cut him out of his daughter's life.
It is up to the court to decide the outcome of your argument, and I think this will be that phone contact will continue, with a view to building up to supervised contact.
The court have already ordered phone contact and although you are hellbent to blowing up the recording of calls as a huge issue, I think the court are as likely to rebuke you for telling your daughter as they are to rebuke your ex for recording.
The bottom line is, the court will do everything to try to maintain contact between NRP and child.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 13:42

cathf

Wrong again.......it is further evidence that he is incapable of putting the needs if his daughter before his own, incapable of acting in her best interest, very capable of creating drama and harm.....which I have put up with for 6 years. So no , it isn't a matter of this one incident, it's an accumulation of ALL the incidents, the bigger picture if you like.

OP posts:
cathf · 27/01/2018 14:00

That's you spin on it, Lettuce. The court may well have a different spin on it, but you seem unable to even consider this as a possibility.
I am not wrong again, I am simply not interpreting things in the same way as you are. It happens

Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 14:32

cathf7

Whatever, I'm done arguing with you. Despite what I've divulged on here, which is merely the tip of the iceberg, you still are trying to paint me in a bad light. That is of course your prerogative, doesn't change the facts though, that HE is the one in the wrong and I have the backing of Cafcass, still, you know best........

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 27/01/2018 17:57

I doubt the court will dismiss the reports of cafcass - it’s what they are there for, so for a court To just put a different spin on it would not only be irregular but where would they be getting this spin?

cathf · 27/01/2018 18:28

I think it's unlikely the report will be quite as black and white as the OP seems to think it will be, especially if she conducted herself in the interviews in the same way as she has in here.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 27/01/2018 20:18

cathf

What you mean defending myself against false gross accusations of being 'that' type of mother who wants to keep my little dd all to myself because clearly her father is a saint...........in spite of evidence to the contrary. Or that I defend myself against massive ignorance about domestic abuse. I have spent the last 8 years dealing with an utter abusive bastard, who like you tried to tell me there was something wrong with me, I was too sensitive, can't take a joke, I'm broken.....all gas lighting bullshit, so I'm very wise to it when I hear it, on here in bundles!

OP posts:
cathf · 27/01/2018 20:22

I have said none of those things Lettuce, you are hearing what you want to hear.
The same as when you speak to CAFCASS, I suspect

SD1978 · 27/01/2018 20:26

I don’t doubt that your ex is abusive, and that you have gone through a horrendous time with him, but a part from recording the conversations, you haven’t said that the content of them was anything other than appropriate- how does your daughter feel that contact has suddenly been ceased? Good luck when the enevutable court case rolls around x

MissMouseMcPhee · 27/01/2018 21:11

From what you have told us here it is clear that your ex has been an abusive husband and clearly there are major concerns about his ability to have contact with his daughter.

But your behaviour is a separate issue. I can completely understand your motivation for telling her, but it is still not right that you did. Tell your solicitor, tell carcass, tell you friends and if you really feel like withholding telephone access is in her best interest and that it won't damage any future case then it might have been kinder and less detrimental for your child to be told simply that it has been decided that Daddy can't phone for a while but that she will be able to speak to him again soon. As it stands she may be dealing with feelings of load, abandonment and now anger and maybe even guilt.

Please don't feel this is an attack. I can't imagine handing my child over happily to someone who abused me and I'm so, so sorry you and she had to go through that. But the more you can shield her from the better. It has never helped a child to hate their dad. Often young children don't have a clear sense of themselves yet and see themselves as half mum and half dad... and thinking that their dad is a bad, duplicitous, untrustworthy person can impact on their own self esteem. She will learn in term.

Has she (or you) accessed counselling for your trauma?

Original poster
Lettucepray · 28/01/2018 10:40

MissMouseMcPhee

I have been protecting my daughter from the consequences of his actions all her life. "Daddy's not coming today, he's poorly" reality- he's still drunk, in the cells or his head is too messed up to see her. "Why did daddy shout at those women and swear"

"Why are the police here?", "why did daddy shout and swear at you mummy?"

I always gave an excuse, played it down and changed the subject and diverted by going out. At some point you have to be asking yourself if doing this means you are complicit in denying what is actually happening. That by covering for him for all these years and giving inadequate answers because really just HOW do you put a positive spin on the police at your door yet again?? She knows that daddy loves her but that daddy has some issues. The issue is that daddy doesn't agree, in his eyes daddy has NO issues and everyone else is at fault not him.....the police, the crisis team, the job centre, the courts, the world! So yes, I have been protecting her from all that. But I am tired of doing so. So what happens in the future? Daddy retains his hero status and mummy becomes the evil witch. At the moment my daughter and I are extremely close, have a very good relationship. She's happy in school, has good friendship groups and appears unscathed by what she has witnessed. However it has been noted that because of what she has witnessed there may well be consequences down the line, particularly in her adolescent years. She has to be seen that I am protecting her. My ex has made an accusation on me due to what she said to him, I had to ask her about it. He is trying to use her to get to me, I won't allow that.

I reiterate, he choose to behave in such a way that I had to cease contact....he has continued to act in a way (by recording and using what was said against me) that has now meant that phone contact has ceased. This is temporary, until it can be resolved.

My daughter does not hate her dad, I have never encouraged her to hate her dad, hence 6 years of unrestricted contact but enough is enough. He has to become responsible for his actions, he has to take ownership and until he does he will not be allowed to see his daughter, that is outside my control. I have had counselling over the years, my mental health is very good, my life is okay in spite of what I have gone through. As I have always been the main carer and stable my dd is okay, she's currently under pastoral care at school because my dad died in November and they were very close. I am doing the best I can under extreme duress.

OP posts:
cathf · 28/01/2018 13:22

Lettuce, that last post sounded so much more rational than all of your others.
With the family courts - as you will be well aware - hysteria really does not cut it, and some of your posts yesterday were quite hysterical.
I still think you were wrong to tell your daughter her dad had been recording the calls, and I still think there is every chance your ex will get a plan to build up contact, not curtail it, as the brief of the family court is to encourage contact if at all posts be.
However, I have a lot more respect for you after that last post and I wish you every success
If there is anything I can do to help - I have been there from the other side - please send me a pm.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 02/02/2018 13:37

Just got out of court. Contrary to opinion on here he was told that I was right to stop phone contact, that phone calls can commence and that in no uncertain terms if he records the conversations he will be in contempt of court and go to prison! I practically skipped out of court.......no, not because I am a cow but because I have been subjected to his bullying and intimidation for years and he just got his arse handed to him on a plate!

OP posts:
user1471451564 · 02/02/2018 13:53

You have every right to skip!!! Good luck to you and your daughter. Your ex p sounds like a real piece of work!!!! Thank god the courts have had your back in this awful situation. All the best.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 02/02/2018 14:28

Thanks user!! Still skiping in my head. They weren't the least bit interested in his silly recordings and by law they have tp be transcribed which would cost thousands of pounds...he really needs a better solicitor lol....

OP posts:
wobytide · 02/02/2018 14:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 02/02/2018 14:59

wobytide

Oh really, how so??? Because I stood up to his pathetic attempt to emotionally abuse me via dd? Because the courts have seen through his 'poor me victim' routine???.

OP posts:
Bringonspring · 02/02/2018 15:27

Great news that the contact can continue with your ex and DD and pleased you are comfortable that your ex has been told not to record.

ChaosNeverRains · 02/02/2018 15:33

This thread is absolutely beyond the pale and is one of the worst responses to a domestic abuse victim I have ever seen on MN and I’ve been here for around fifteen years. Angry.

I am usually one of the first to advocate contact between a parent and child in most circumstances but the way the OP has been attacked on here is despicable. Some of you need to have a long hard look at yourselves and see what your level of victim blaming does to people.

For the record, it is illegal to record an adult without their knowledge, so why is it you think that a child should be able to be recorded in order to continue to abuse the adult in this situation?

If I had a child whose contact with their abusive father had been stopped by the courts and said abuser recorded their phone calls to try to score some kind of points and continue the abuse too bloody right I would speak to the professionals and aim for all contact to be ceased.

And what was the OP supposed to tell her daughter tonight after the court case when his recordings have been deemed inadmissible and the phone contact is ceased anyway? Nothing? Should the OP not have complained about the recordings anyway so as to maintain this father daughter relationship at all costs? Get real.

OP, glad that the courts have taken the right decision here.

RockPaperCut · 02/02/2018 15:48

I’m fully with you op, I’ve been lurking with not much to add. Chaos However posters only go by what information is on the post. They’re not privy to all the dynamics that have happened within the relationship. And an op who is completely exasperated by the situation doesn’t always present as reasonable or rational.

Op, if you suspect narc tendencies, there are lots of resources online for dealing with characters like your ex. What I’ve found the more emotion, anger, frustration I showed, it simply fuelled my ex’s behaviour.

Bringonspring · 02/02/2018 15:51

Chaosneverrains
OP doesn’t tell her daughter anything. The courts have said that the contact can continue but have clarified that her ex husband shouldn’t be recording them which OP is rightly pleased about.

Original poster
Lettucepray · 02/02/2018 16:05

RockPaperCut

Yes i have researched extensively and will be practicing my 'gray rock' so not to become supply.

ChaosNeverRains

Thank you so much!! I was flabbergasted by some responses and couldn't actually believe it. Luckily I'm feisty so I fight back but many other women wouldn't be able to.

OP posts: