Husband Has Ended it - road to divorce

[itsovernow1]

Hi
I've had a thread in the Relationship section for a while, thought now we're actually heading for Divorce I'd post a new thread to update here.
All and any advice welcome.

Link to old thread [https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2814181-Husband-has-ended-it?pg=20] hopefully that worked!

That sounds like a very grim place to work. I'm relieved for you that you decided to quit, though that doesn't make you a quitter in my book.

You're anything but that.

You're doing an amazing job of creating a new life for yourself. Of course you're exhausted and of course you're frustrated but please don't call yourself a quitter! You're navigating your way through difficult experiences that you didn't ask for and you certainly don't deserve, yet you keep on rising to the occasion in admirable fashion. Never doubt it, you rock!

Well, I guess I disagree (with not just you btw), if you quit after 1 shift, you are a quitter! LOL!

With hindsight maybe I was a tad hasty. But maybe not. I'll never know.
I think my decision to leave after one shift was for a few reasons, which also included being absolutely knackered. I don't think I was in the right mindset and should have waited a week but it's done. And I couldn't face going back the next morning. My DD will attest I was nearly hysterical (pathetic I know) after I couldn't get through to them on the phone the 1st time!

It was a busy week. I'd done the training day Wed, gone to work that night, then worked Thurs evening until midnight, got up at 4am to do L's, then the thought of doing a 6 hr shift Fri evening to then get up at 4am for L's filled me with horror. I couldn't do it. Maybe if I'd had a day in-between each L's shift I'd have thought clearly.
Next week I would have had a day in between each L shift. Sadly I won't get to experience that and see if it would have made a difference.

Hindsight is a remarkable thing! But I don't know whether I think this way because I am now back to square one with 2nd job hunting and need money! Time will tell!

Well, money wise I have screwed myself over with this decision, going from getting a small mortgage (possibly) to getting 0. The saying is measure twice, cut once. I recommend, think twice, resign once you're sure it's the right thing to do. ....

I admit my bias: I once stuck it out in a truly grim job that was literally an environmental hazard...for a year. I still look back and shudder at that experience. My health was at stake so eventually I quit. I needed the money badly but I needed my health more. In some ways it was a disaster financially but if I didn't have my health, I didn't have anything.

It sounds like you are thinking of qualifying for a mortgage within a timeline. In other words, you need to establish a certain level of steady income in order to qualify. Was this the only job available in the time needed? Are there any other opportunities available locally? (I suspect that's a stupid question on my part but that never seems to slow me up from asking!)

As I get older I have spent a lot of time lately contemplating the process of "downsizing". The conventional wisdom says rent and try it out for awhile while you figure out whether the situation really works for you. It is easier to move from a rental if a better situation comes along. The landlord has to pay for repairs. So forth and so on. Is there any positive side to renting in your opinion or is it all downside because the needs of the kids and the dog won't get met?

I hope you still have time to find a better job, maybe one that fits in with your schedule and doesn't leave you fatigued. At the end of the day, hanging onto your good health is really important, too, maybe the most important thing of all.

Here you have to have been in employment for at least 3 months to for it to be considered. I suppose I am trying to quality within a timeline. I, in theory, have until next July when DD turns 18 - if I can stall STBX that long. Then selling this home or buying STBX will have to happen as legally once DD turns 18 the house can be sold.

Renting would be the absolute last resort. If I did rent I'd be stuck renting for the rest of my life. I wouldn't earn enough to buy later on and my money would be wasted on rent (IMO). Renting a 2 bed place here - flat or house - would cost more monthly than paying a mortgage. I'd rather buy a smaller place and make it work. Plus, yes, most rentals don't take pets so that would force my hand with the dog before even taking other issues into account. Not to mention the uncertainty with renting. They can change their mind whenever they feel like it. Even if I could only buy a 1 bed place it would be mine.

I will be looking every day for a suitable 2nd job. I think I've cut off my nose to spite my face with this other job though. Hindsight is a great thing. Oh well. I just wish the 1st shift had gone better so my tiredness hadn't played a factor in my decision.
The lady doing the training (and I use that term loosely) had other jobs to do - she wasn't the cleaner as they didn't appear to have one - so things weren't really being taught as such. I've been in a job before where I just got chucked in at the deep end, I didn't want to go down that route again. There was no structure to the training either, she didn't seem to know what to show me or what I was supposed to be doing. The other lady training with me (who was already a cleaner) said if she was training me, I'd be shadowing her and her alone for the whole shift. I just thought it would be uber-organised, as the training day seemed to imply that.

It is no different here. Renting costs more than a mortgage. You do have a little time. If it were me, I'd put my name in every job shop (contract work) in town. They get paid if they find me a job, win/win. Have you already tried that? (Everybody does contract work here, it's the most efficient way to get jobs in this economy.)

As far as mortgages go, you want to get your foot in the door of your own home, and that makes sense. A decent down payment from the sale of your old home would be nice, or even possibly a bundle of cash enough to buy a small place outright. Would you be willing to move if that's what it took?

Also, and I hope I'm not asking too many questions, but I'm trying to understand your options, is there some rule that says your joint debts have to be completely dissolved as part of the divorce terms or is that negotiable? It seems rather mean-spirited of STBX to throw, you, the children, and the dog to the wolves if that's what is going on. You're probably running on adrenaline with a boost of anger at this point! I've done that a few times in my life and ended up with enough cortisol (or whatever it is, too tired to look it up) floating around my system to sink a ship. Cliche, I know, but do take things one day at a time if you can.

Contract work sadly wouldn't help with the mortgage, makes it more difficult (but not impossible) and I'm really looking for a stable job. But yeah it's an idea.

I'm 50/50 with moving/staying. Staying would be easier (obviously) - for all sorts of reasons - but moving does have an attraction, starting fresh in a home STBX has never lived in. Really depends on what's available at the time I make these decisions.

STBX, in his mind, won't do anything other than sell to pay off the debts. UNLESS I can pay him a payment outright that also can pay the debts off. That might be possible as my Dad would help but it's a last resort. Basically STBX wants to start fresh and doesn't care how that's done. I can understand that. Just makes me mad I've been talking about sorting the debts out for years and he ignored me. Until it suits him now! Plus he doesn't seem bothered at all about where DD and DS will go to - even when at Uni kids need somewhere to go during the holidays!

I do have an interview on Fri for a job I applied for a couple of weeks ago, after I got the Lidl job! I knew I had the Lidl job but applied anyway. That kinda says something. It's still for a cleaner, more hours and not as close but it's a decent wage and start time (9am!) so no really early mornings. Better for a mortgage as well. We shall see.

Often contract work leads to an offer of permanent work, I've noticed around here. It's a way to get known by employers. Things happen through networking of various sorts, too, people use online sites to get their resume out there, share info.

But it doesn't sound like you want a desk job, per se. You want something where you can move around, not be in an office climate tied to a desk?

Hope your interview goes well on Friday. It must feel good to know you have another shot at a job that has potential. I've talked to people here who work in sales at department stores and the biggest complaint is the constantly changing schedule. It would be nice to have something with fixed hours, I imagine, where you could have a predictable schedule.

Some jobs have a certain Zen appeal where you do the work well but don't have to mentally engage much. There are times in life when that is exactly what one wants because such work allows room to think or not think, and not have to be constantly "on"!

Nope, done the desk job and would really like to avoid it this time around! Plus my computer skills for Word etc are rough not to mention Excell is non-existent! I'm just not interested in learning it. I've tried to free stuff online but it's SO boring! (to me).

I just want a job where I don't have too much responsibility. I do the job and go home, not having to worry. My problem is I don't have 'ambition'. I just want to work to get paid (with pride obviously) that will pay the bills.

Well, STBX has sent another email. Stating what HE wants. I've just forwarded it onto my SOL and won't reply until I hear from her.

STBX wants me to pay my credit card bill so we have the 'same disposable income at the end of each month'. Um, your' disposable income' pays for 1 person (STBX) and mine pays for 2 (me and DD, plus DS when he's rarely here). How is that fair?!? That would also mean I couldn't save anything towards SOL fees, car bills, house bills that crop up. But he'd be raking it in to spend on himself. He can also do more overtime if needed (which I'm sure he's cut down since the split.....)

I agree in principal with paying my bill, but in reality it would be very difficult. I could pay the gas/elec bill and maybe the water bill, but my credit card is pushing it. I need my car, if that goes tits up I'm screwed. STBX has a backup of a motorbike if his car goes tits up.
What really gets my goat is none of these emails make any provision for the kids or even mention them!

DD has been on summer hols since mid July, yet STBX can't take one day off and go out with her somewhere? He never was one to do that though, I'd be the one to suggest doing stuff so it's not a surprise really. Just thought with things like this it may have been different.

I need to get this job Friday. Hopefully I make a good impression. But with no cleaning experience it could be tough. We shall see.

This "my debt versus your debt" meme keeps cropping up and seems to be very much at the forefront of his mind! He appears anxious to distance himself from the past, which isn't very nice, seeing as that includes the children!

As you point out, the bill doesn't just magically appear every month, it is a reflection of expenses that include the needs of the kids.
He seems to be prone to dictating terms to his liking, doesn't he? Was he always like this or is this a new side to his character that has emerged?

You mentioned the possibility of your Dad helping out as a last resort, once again, if my memory serves. Maybe there is something that could be worked out between you and your Dad that would work for your Dad's benefit, as well. You might end up wanting to be closer to your Dad as he gets on in years. If you shared a home could that ultimately work out for the best for you and your Dad?

You did the right thing in forwarding this latest email to your solicitor. Would it be less upsetting for you if all future emails went directly to your solicitor?

I suspect you are concerned about racking up solicitor's hours spent on this situation but you really do need that legal muscle on your side. If STBX upsets you with his email requests how does that help you get sufficient rest to do well at work or on your job interview?

It sounds like you need and want to focus on taking care of business for you and the kids and rightly so! STBX is on the road to his own personal Karma, but that is not your problem, wouldn't you say? It is sad and I am sure someday he will regret it but his idea of what is fair to him is all he cares about right now. And that obviously doesn't work for you at all.

This "my debt versus your debt" meme keeps cropping up and seems to be very much at the forefront of his mind! He appears anxious to distance himself from the past, which isn't very nice, seeing as that includes the children!

yes, he wants to clear this all up as quickly as possible. He knows I can't buy him out so he wants to sell, cut ties completely (divorce & financially) and move on.

As you point out, the bill doesn't just magically appear every month, it is a reflection of expenses that include the needs of the kids.

DD might not be a child in the usual terms, I mean she';s 17, but she still needs things like clothes, shoes, college stuff and being driven to Drs appointments etc.., your responsibility doesn't just disappear once they reach a certain age. STBX made sure DS was sorted at Uni before making this decision. He felt he'd done his job (as promised to DS when a baby, as I had PNDand was in a bad place).

He seems to be prone to dictating terms to his liking, doesn't he? Was he always like this or is this a new side to his character that has emerged?

He has a way about him yes, plus I usually just gave in. My fault there, but yes this time it's all about his terms.

You mentioned the possibility of your Dad helping out as a last resort, once again, if my memory serves. Maybe there is something that could be worked out between you and your Dad that would work for your Dad's benefit, as well. You might end up wanting to be closer to your Dad as he gets on in years. If you shared a home could that ultimately work out for the best for you and your Dad?

Dad did think about it and I mentioned it but we both like our independence too much! Maybe in later yrs it could happen but right now we need our own space.

You did the right thing in forwarding this latest email to your solicitor. Would it be less upsetting for you if all future emails went directly to your solicitor?

STBX won't go direct to my SOL though. I told him I wouldn't discuss any more financial stuff directly with him but yet here we are. I will wait for my SOL to respond before replying to STBX

I suspect you are concerned about racking up solicitor's hours spent on this situation but you really do need that legal muscle on your side. If STBX upsets you with his email requests how does that help you get sufficient rest to do well at work or on your job interview?
Oh yeah I am concerned about cost, but I wouldn't know what to do if my SOL wasn't there. I know people do DIY divorces but I'd muck it up ... I just need to only email SOL once whereas before I'd send 2/3 separate ones.

It sounds like you need and want to focus on taking care of business for you and the kids and rightly so! STBX is on the road to his own personal Karma, but that is not your problem, wouldn't you say?

I need to concentrate on my family yes. STBX probably thinks he's being fair and nice but in reality he's making this a lot more complicated and dictating.

It is sad and I am sure someday he will regret it but his idea of what is fair to him is all he cares about right now. And that obviously doesn't work for you at all.

STBX won't regret it. I mean, he put in the divorce papers that he's less anxious since leaving. Well, so am I in that sense, I like making decisions based on me & DD. I won't regret it either tbh. He's done me a favour and I will appreciate that in the long run. Kinda wish he'd done it years ago so we could have moved on before the debts got too high. Fair has to work for both parties though, and needs discussion. Something that is lacking right now.

If you look at where you started and where you are now it's quite striking how far you have journeyed. You sound so much stronger and with a very clear sense of what you need and what you have to have happen. That's good.

Was STBX an only child by any chance? There is something about the way he goes about things that makes me wonder... I'm sure he emails you directly to rattle you. He's kind of acting like he wants to be a kid again, "I want what I want when I want it!" You know how teens tend naturally to be self-absorbed? I think there are some adults who regress when their kids reach teen years, out of envy or competition. Very unfair to the actual kids, in my opinion...

I'm trying. Sometimes I feel like it's 1 step forward, 2 steps back. I think I'll feel this way until it's all sorted and we can both move on. I just want to get rid of him now!

Yep, he is an only child..... Haha! Good call!
He's never been close to his parents so has kept secrets all his life. Marriage was no different. Although I did add to it by being a little paranoid. My fault there. But when someone adds fuel to the fire it gets worse.
He has kind of regressed to before we were married. He's free and single again. He's lost weight and is wearing skinny jeans again.

I think I know the psychology of the only child pretty well, having raised one myself, haha!

An "Only" can be incredibly charming but also has early on learned to escape the full force of the parental gaze, hence the secretiveness. Yet I don't think the Only relinquishes center stage very gracefully.

Tom Hiddleston is the only man on the planet with the right to wear skinny pants, in my opinion. There really ought to be a law.

Haha! Well it was spot on analysis!

Funny, isn't it? I had to laugh when you said yes, he is!

You will probably find yourself feeling remarkably lighter and more energetic once you get through this divorce process. Some people take up all the oxygen in the room and when you get away from them, you realize you can breathe again. I don't think they necessarily do this on purpose but nonetheless, it is exhausting to deal with, day in and day out.

You don't even realize how oxygen deprived you have become until you get that breath of fresh air again!

I read a lot of psychology in my younger days trying to make some sense of my difficult family. Jung's puer aeternus type particularly caught my attention as one I recognized. When you have time check out the discussions of this personality style and see if STBX matches.

They tend to assign someone the role of the rock from which they launch so they can flap around above it all. I can't remember which Jungian said the type always lands on their feet, too. There may not be any science to any of this but the patterns of behavior are real enough.

I'm sure STBX thinks I am ALL the problem that went wrong. I agree I played my part in the failure but won't be the fall guy for all of it.

Well, he can think whatever he likes but you know better!

True.

Can you agree to wait until your D'S goes to uni before selling up. That seems a natural point and would give you more time to get organised. Part of the settlement should also take into consideration future needs of DC where they will live during holidays rt. If you are expected to keep a place for them you should get more equity. I may be wrong on this though as I am no legal expert.

*dd

I want to wait until DD has finished college next Aug/Sept (and also turns 18) and going to Uni (hopefully) before doing anything. But STBX thinks selling is the only option as his thoughts are solely about the debts and starting to put money away for his pension. He seems to think I will get a decent enough place to live. I will get more equity but as we have debts to take off, that takes a larger chunk away from both of us unfortunately. Strangely, as we have stopped using the credit cards the debts are going down.... funny that.

You need to be careful about having multiple jobs. Under the Working Time Regulations you are still required to have an 11 hour gap between shifts, even if for different employers.

www.employmentsolicitor.com/working-time-regulations-happens-employees-multiple-jobs/

People always mention mediation in these circumstances.
Is that something you will be doing?