Husband Has Ended it - road to divorce

[itsovernow1]

Hi
I've had a thread in the Relationship section for a while, thought now we're actually heading for Divorce I'd post a new thread to update here.
All and any advice welcome.

Link to old thread [https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2814181-Husband-has-ended-it?pg=20] hopefully that worked!

I'm still mad, internalised mad, trouble is that's not good.
I just keep thinking about it which has me going round in circles.

I can't believe this OW thinks it's OK that he's travelling round everywhere with her spending money like water and only seeing his daughter once a month for 'coffee and cake'. As far as we know the OW lived with her mother for a while as an adult (very recently I suspect) so surely can see being close to parents is ideal??
Surely if you know you will be buying your own place at some point you'd also want to save money for it?? My financial settlement isn't there for you to furnish your house love!

I have a draft of an email I will be sending to him. I wrote it the other night after I'd read the Form E but decided to wait to send it so I wasn't so mad. If I speak to him about it I will just go into sarcastic bitch mode and that's not good as it will just wind me up not him. (I am sarcastic anyway which is a fault but I can't help it!).

There are some things on the petition that are correct and I agree with, but there are others where there's more to the story than what's written down in black and white. For example, I'm not sympathetic when sick, I explained a few times why I felt that way, doesn't matter who you are, if you're sick keep away from me and look after yourself! I will fetch drinks etc... if you're bed bound etc. but other than that nope. Unless it's REALLY serious (I call Cancer serious...) then I will have sympathy for you (obviously). A cold/flu isn't going to last forever..... take your medicine and work through it.

But yes, I am insulted he couldn't leave without the 'push' of someone else waiting and still didn't have the guts to be honest. I defended him at the beginning, saying he assured me there wasn't an OW and the one friend I knew about was a lesbian so she wasn't a threat! Oh how he must have been laughing at me. I was a mug. All the time he was talking to this OW and not the lesbian, as he had told me so I should believe him right?

I am not perfect, far from it, I have so many issues I could fill a book, but it's the lies.
My problem with trying to fight a settlement offer is cost. I want to see what he comes up with then do some thinking. The difference between 70/30 and 60/40 is £20k, which is a huge amount when looking for a new home, BUT fighting it and only coming away with 60/40 means I've lost money (SOL costs) for something I was never going to win. Does that make sense?

Things between DD and I are weird right now. I don't know how to handle this situation. I'm not ignoring her but we're not talking either.

I did snap the other night after reading the Form E and did mention her dad hadn't paid his half for her bus pass because he 'didn't have the cash spare' but was living it up with OW. I know DD knew about them living together and obviously the holiday last yr as she follows them both on FB and they post quite a lot. (that's how DD and DS found out about OW, pictures with her a lot - in a group of friends with STBX - and OW liking all STBX's posts...).

I flip flop with where DD will live. I feel guilty for trying to push her to him BUT if nothing is going to change, even if she goes back to college in Sept, then what choice do I have?? She's lazy. Simple as. She needs a job but doesn't have one and i doesn't look like she's getting one any time soon. I can't 'keep' her any more. I need to save for my future.
She doesn't do anything around the house either. Unless asked..... and it's tiring! I don't think I'm demanding, I just want the usual stuff done - make your bed, put your towel back after a shower, put your dirty clothes in the wash basket, hoover and clean your room regularly etc... even hoover downstairs sometimes if it needs doing. You don't need an invitation!

The settlement will probably settle this anyway, not enough money means living with Dad and OW. Not sure OW had thought of that!

Well my SOL has replied to me and she thinks 60/40 is unrealistic and he'll push for equal - 50/50. Possibly 55/45 to me if I leave the pension alone and take into account the earnings difference.
So that settles it, DD lives with him. The extra £10k would have made all the difference.
Not sure why I have bothered with this given it's probably a 50/50 settlement. This has taken time and money and if she'd said to me at the start it would only be 50/50 then I'd have not bothered with a SOL at all, only to check Form E.

I feel deflated and just want to get on with my life. He gets a decent mortgage with OW - they can get £200,000 between them - plus a decent £60,000 after all debts are paid, so he will come out of this nicely as I'm sure she has a deposit to add. They expand their search area and you can get lovely places for that money. Also taking into account he's squadered all his earnings in the past yr. Yet I am expected to house possibly the 2 kids (adults) on £110,000 plus £50k mortgage?? Nope, not happening. I will look after myself. And it seems I have no choice but to go with a flat. Something I didn't want to do.

not enough money means living with Dad and OW. Not sure OW had thought of that!

Yes, that would certainly spoil love's young dream. I know what you mean by your ambivalence about DD - on the one hand she is your DD but on the other, if you don't have the money, you don't - she doesn't seem to have realised this (in terms of not getting a job etc). It must be difficult for her too, not knowing where she will be - but she is old enough to understand hard sums - not enough money for 2 bedrooms is just that, and she will see that her father is comfortably off with holidays and new clothes etc. You can't magic money up out of nowhere.

I feel guilty but with the predicted equity split, and having just done some sums, it's desperate tbh. I don't know how I'll keep doing this, looking on rightmove is terrible, the places in my price range if we do a 50% split. I'm not including my dads money as it's not guaranteed and I don't feel right taking it.
If i take a 1 bed - where will DS go if he visits? Wish I'd never paid the SOL all this money just to tell me it's 50/50. What a waste.

Although, DD has kinda made this difficult as she decided not to finish college and then start again. She could have been at Uni by Sept... but decided she didn't want to finish her 2nd yr at college.

It will be fine when the kids visit. For example, I have a fold-up cot I keep in a closet, takes up hardly any room. It's surprisingly comfortable when in use. There have been times when I was too exhausted to make the bed up for company and so I just put a pile of quilts on the floor or on the sofa. It's like camping out. They're kids, they are resilient. It's you they will be coming to see, not your furniture, isn't that right?

I get the impression that prices on homes are very high in England, particularly depending on which region you live in. It doesn't seem fair for you to get a 50/50 settlement when he and OW would be two earners qualifying.

How does your attitude towards illness have any bearing on anything? Never mind, you don't have to answer that. Such attacks on one's character would make one's blood boil, I imagine. How awful for you.

You must look after yourself. You absolutely have to. Don't hesitate for a second. You can't take care of anybody else if you don't take care of yourself.

Oh yes, when they visit we'll manage if the space is limited. Not ideal though.
Prices are very much dependant on area yes, down to miles even.

I will push my SOL for 60/40, I need that. Given he earns £20k more (at the moment, if he gets a pay rise or overtime payments it will go up), he has the earning potential for more, he has £50k more pension (on paper) and can save more than I can, and yes they're co-habiting - with 2 earners, I feel it's justified to ask for 60/40.

I just asked DD where she wants to live and 'she's not bothered' was her reply, she can do her course anywhere. Have to admit it did hurt but it's her decision. Obviously if she said she'd live with me I could have made more of a deal including child maintenance but that's down the drain. If he'd not have budged from 50/50 and she wanted to live with me I would have made him pay the maintenance (£350 per month for 1 yr!), at 60/40 we could have made a deal (possibly). But now it's a moot point really. I will make it a clause that if she does live with him I don't pay maintenance. I just couldn't afford it.

As I said, there were points on the petition I agreed with but others I felt were pathetic and I was hurt by some as I'd explained my point of view concerning them. My dad read it and said he and my mum could have divorced years ago based on those points!

I need to see what STBX is going to come up with as an offer. I am hoping he won't wait too long as there's no point in waiting IMO. Plus he can apply for the Absolute (from tomorrow I think) and obviously we need the settlement sorted before he does that.

If he waits until DD is 18 in a few months then there'll be a problem as I can't pay the mortgage on my own or even half. So stalling won't be ideal for either of us. I'd hope to get it sorted so we can start the ball rolling on selling the house so it sells near her 18th b/day.

I will be speaking to a mortgage advisor soon (I need to make appointment for next week hopefully) and can find out what my capacity is and what's available so I have a clearer picture of my next move concerning a home.

Obviously whatever happens happens. I can't control all of it and can't magic money out of thing air. That's the difficult thing to keep telling myself. Majority of the time I don't believe it and panic/worry about what hasn't happened yet.

I hope you are getting a portion of the pension? I guarantee that in the years to come he will add to it substantially and the pension is likely to be a sizable sum down the road. And even if the pension weren't to grow much, every little bit helps when you reach retirement age.

Often when you are depressed and tired everything becomes a great big tangle, which then becomes overwhelming. Of course it really hurts when it feels as if DD is distancing herself from you but I think that is common at her age.

Right now your life is out of equilibrium because of this divorce. She hasn't even found her own equilibrium yet, and no matter how much you wish you could guide her, you probably will find yourself talking to a wall.

We want our children to feel solidarity with us after the many years we have been there for them. It's wonderful when they do feel that way but I have found it helpful to lower my expectations if I didn't want to feel hurt more often than I liked.

Does the house need help in order to sell? New roof, plumbing, paint, things like that? Maybe that expense needs to be spelled out, too.

I'm a bit annoyed with with your SOL on your behalf. It is very bothersome when they mostly act like a fee-collecting machine. However, I was fairly confident they would get into gear at this point and hopefully that will be the case!

I haven't been properly advised about the pension. I thought it meant the current one not future one? (i.e. part of the £61k as it is now, not anything added to it??). My SOL hasn't fully explained that. She just said if I decided not to go for the pension I could argue that I need more equity. Which right now I need more, and I'm hoping with the pension i could hopefully put quite a bit into at the work one and they also contribute.

The house does need a new bathroom and kitchen (kitchen more than anything, including a new boiler, although the old one works fine). But those are obviously things that are beyond our control. It need a good decluttering and the downstairs decorating (open plan). I am due to paint at Easter so hopefully it will look more inviting. Box up the pictures etc... that I won't be putting back.

So far STBX hasn't contacted me again about coming over and looking through stuff. I will not contact him, he knows me feelings on this and if he can't be bothered then fine. I will earmark what I want and that's that.

I panic when I first read things and then after a few days it's more clear. I know I can't control the complete outcome as such, so I have to plan for what will probably happen although at times I feel overwhelmed. I will be telling my SOL what I WANT and go from there.

I always thought you could only claim a share of the other person's pension up to the point you separate or divorce - not future earnings - but I could be wrong.

If this has not already be suggested to your STBX maybe it would put the wind up him to the point of him agreeing to 70/30.

I am surprised your solicitor hasn't advised you on this and am beginning to think she isn't very good.

I don't understand pensions at the best of time so this is confusing anyway!
We are waiting for him to make the first move - so to speak - as I have no idea what his ideas are. He may go for 60/40 at the start or he could go 50/50 expecting a negotiation. Anything is possible. Depends on the advice he's been given I guess.
He'll never agree to anything more than 60/40 I bet. He wants his new life and 70/30 would not buy that.

I did ring up another SOL on Friday to ask if I could get a 2nd opinion even if I have already instructed a solicitor. Unfortunately you can't do that but they did say my SOL is a well respected & experienced SOL. I am on the fence. I will be emailing them on Monday to tell them what I WANT and wait until STBX comes at us with his 1st offer. I am tempted to just accept it if it's 60/40 so we can move on. Given the kids are adults now (well DD is nearly) they don't count towards the settlement so no wiggle room there.
Should I have to keep asking my SOL questions or should they just explain them (i.e. the pension thing)?

Today I ordered my deed poll to change my name back. I was going to wait until the Absolute but STBX has to apply and he obviously hasn't yet as we haven't sorted the settlement out. I want to get the ball rolling and the deed poll seems the easiest way as I've ordered a few to send to different places all at once. Once I get it witnessed the first thing is my passport - name and new pic - do you think that's right? (changing my pic as I do look slightly different with shorter grey hair and also my neighbour can sign it, whereas when I move I won't know anyone who can!).
Then I can change my driving license - name only - as the pic has a few years to run and then I can do that online with my passport one when I want to. Meanwhile I can do the bank and work stuff, Dr, Dentist - as I can walk in to those. I have a list!

What I am thinking of regarding pensions is called "earmarking" in England, according to Google. This would mean some portion of STBX's pension fund becomes attached to you, giving you a pension income entitlement when you retire. Since wives tend to live longer they are sometimes assigned a larger share of the pension fund, perhaps 60%. You can verify this with your SOL. I'm guessing STBX will probably be quite fond of his pension fund so at the very least it could be a bargaining point for you.

I'm guessing STBX will probably be quite fond of his pension fund so at the very least it could be a bargaining point for you.

This is what I think too - worth a try?

My SOL hasn't explained any of that, just keeps saying 'share of his pension'! I will ask, but only when I have other questions, keep them to one email to keep the cost down!

STBX does want to build his pension yes (he has earmarked £200 per month for that in the future apparently...according to his 'future expenses' form). Plus he did say them to me before moving out, he wanted to build that up.

Just had a mortgage advisor round, she took all my details and did some sums and will get back to me in about 48 hrs with the possible mortgage figures. We shall see.

That's very good to hear re: your SOL's remarks about 'share of his pension'. I agree with Kaitlin, the pension is a potential bargaining chip for you in your negotiations.

As I see it, you have earned this share over the course of your marriage. There is a British financial guru named Mary Waring who offers lots of interesting advice to women going through divorce and she is quite adamant about women getting their share of pensions.

I hope your mortgage advisor can provide you with some encouraging suggestions, too. I like the way you're staying on top of all these details in such a matter of fact way, taking care of business!

Remember he wouldn't have been able to build up his skills, CV etc to the point where he can plan to put £200 pm away for his pension without you doing the family grunt work all these years.

Honestly, after the way he lied to you a year ago when he left I wouldn't be pulling any punches now.

Why is it these men don't leave until they have lined up a replacement? It just seems pathetic - if you're not happy - go - and THEN look for someone new. Can they not be without someone for five minutes? (Sorry - off the point I know but it annoys me).

I think that's my SOL's intentions to use the pension as a bargaining chip as I keep saying I want more equity as it's more use to me now. I won't be able to move in yrs to come as my wages definitely won't allow that so I want it all now. And then I can save for my own pension. That probably sounds daft but I might not be around to spend the pension but I'm here now and need a decent place to live.

I'm hoping the mortgage advisor gives me at least the figures I've been working from, anything less will be disappoint. I've been going on the ones my current mortgage place gave me.

I'm trying to deal with things but given nothing is actually settled yet it's making life unnecessarily difficult. Not sure what his game is but it's not just me he's messing with, DD's life is also in limbo to a degree.

Oh believe me I am pissed and will never forgive or forget the way he's done this. It's insulting he had to have someone waiting for him rather than just say 'I'm not happy' and walk away. The way he's treated DD (and DS) is disgusting and he should be ashamed and I will be telling him all this - by writing it down not vocally, as he'd interrupt and just roll his eyes and I wouldn't say what I want to say. He's had plenty of time and money (it seems) to take DD (and DS) out but has chosen not to, instead doing things with that woman. Makes me think of him as pathetic.

I have an innate faith in the value of a property that provides me with a roof over my head, so we don't differ there at all. But I think you will find even a relatively small payout from STBX's pension to be quite useful when you reach retirement age.

For example, it might make the critical difference in preventing having to downsize, which is hard at any age and the idea doesn't seem to get especially easier to contemplate as you get older.

If you can get STBX to agree to a 70/30 split on the house, your favor, that's one thing. But if he offers 50/50 on the house, then I'd have to insist that 50/50 on the pension is only fair and quite reasonable.

It feels sad to have to reduce one's life to a set of percentages in this fashion. I don't like anger and try to avoid it but I like it better than depression! Anger is fuel that gets you through and that's useful at least.

I am going to have to save up questions to ask my SOL.
I had to text STBX this morning as DD's phone is playing up so we may have to pay off the old phone plan and get a new one, he needs to pay half as I can't pay it all.
I asked why the settlement issue was taking so long and he replied that my Form E has 'missing information and inconsistencies' so his solicitor is writing to my SOL. No idea what they are or what the problems are. I emailed my SOL telling her what he'd said and her reply was his SOL might have questions and we can deal with them. She keeps asking if I want to make an offer and I've clearly told her I want him to make the first move. Also she told me it was commonplace to wait for him to offer as he started the process. Not sure why she won't listen.

I also mentioned (to STBX) that it's not just me waiting for the settlement, DD needs to know where she'll be for her study in Sept. He is surprised I see an issue and has been telling DD that she will be staying here as all her friends are here and so is college. So basically I've been saying one thing and he's been saying another - but his seems 'definite' whereas I've said to her 'maybe, it's all down to what I can afford'. Seems he has no intention of her living with him. If that's the case I will be pursuing child maintenance for all it's worth. (for the record, I would pay if she went to live with him. I want to have a clear conscience.) Not sure he's thought of that though, probably thinks she's too old for CM, but if she's studying further education it counts.

I've told him that might not be possible, for her to stay here, going on the sums I've done. His reply? 'How can you know that as we haven't made a settlement offer to you yet'. Um, dude, numbers are numbers, surely he's done the same as me and gone through them over and over again?? I've gone through 5 different scenarios now - 50/50, 55/45, 60/40, 65/35, 70/30 - using the equity before and after settling the debts, and then adding 2 different mortgage values (that I got from my chat with my current provider a few months ago). Believe me I've been doing my sums. And analysed everything! (still waiting for the mortgage advisor from Monday to email me when I'll have a clearer picture of my borrowing power). Any money my Dad can give me is irrelevant and even if STBX knows about it (possible), it's not MY money... yet.

You might consider changing STBX to PITASTBX! He's been dragging things out to wear you down, as with this so-called 'missing information and inconsistencies'. Get you to agree whatever he proposes in order to make the pain stop. He's not being very nice at all, is he?

He's definitely is one of those! It's just one thing after another.

Funny how it's my Form E seemingly holding things up now whereas he's had since Aug last yr to file his (when he first asked for the house valuations and said he was doing his Form E). Mine needed to be changed end Jan/early Feb because DD left college and tax credits stopped/added my car. Now it's 'missing information and inconsistencies'. I could add the same for his Form re: missing information - no car or motorbike listed, I wanted proof of the debt to his other woman, all of which my SOL says won't make any difference to the end result. I'm just waiting to find out what problems they've found to see how petty it is.

I have to stick to my guns and at the end of the day, I can't crap money!

I suppose STBX isn't the type to believe in Karma? The negative energy he's putting out now will return his way sooner or later, as when OW gets sick of him someday.

But in the meantime you have to stick to your guns, absolutely. From the sounds of it, your SOL has seen it all, which is why she doesn't get ruffled by all the game-playing.

STBX seems to hide behind OW and his SOL. He makes amiable noises to you but his behavior is actually rather mean-spirited. That bad behavior belies his soul-of-reason stance when you confront him with facts. Quite annoying of him, to say the least.

Hi over I've been reading your thread - don't take this the wrong way but you seem so passive - maybe it's your depression wearing you down?
If you don't get a reply from your solicitor call the office and say "I've sent her an email I need a reply" this won't cost you money.
Re the house sale - I'm not sure if you have done this but I was told to get three valuations of my property and then get some prices of local properties to see what realistically you can afford to live in.
As far as I'm aware the court look at a fair settlement. He is much better off than you - he has a pension - do you earn enough to get a mortgage for £50,000? The court will look at this. You may need a higher division to get yourself a home.
Re depression - it was only when I started taking anti-depressants that I realised how flat I had been for years. They made everything brighter.
I really would consider it.
He has been a deceitful bastard hasn't he? You do know depression is anger that we push down. You need to let it out somehow.
I hope your life improves.