Have been told this is going to be a complicated divorce

[2sugarsandadog]

In a nutshell:

Married 17 years, 2 dds 15 & 16. Controlling (in every way he can), bullying husband - only speaks to me when he has to or wants to put me down (no goodbye/hellos even)

Three years ago I spent a month getting alcohol treatment. Paid for it myself.

Never been given any money by H - if he's shopping and I ask (eg) for a deodorant he'll ask me for the money for it. Although he does pay utility bills and has taken me along on family holidays.

Two years before I met H, my father died. My sister and I used the money to buy the houses we're in now (so they're solely in our respective names) BUT also were able to invest in two properties for which we both get a very modest rental income.

I am 49 and H is 77.

When I asked him for a divorce before Christmas, he told me he wants half of everything. When I asked 'What, half of this house?' he replied 'No, half of all your assets'. Which will mean selling not only the house we're living in but also the property I share ownership of with my sister. Because, he said, he wants the money so he can leave it to the girls - he said that I would spend it. The reason he says this is I had - many years ago - managed to put away £4k each in an account for the children. But when it became clear I needed alcohol treatment I put that money towards my recovery. Which I believed at the time was the right thing to do.

My question is this. Is it right, that I should go ahead, given that I would have to sell the flat that my sister gets a small income from (thereby ruining both her income and her children's inheritance) which is what he's going to make me do. I'd also have to sell the house I get a small income from although that doesn't make me feel as bad because it's only me and my children that will affect (although I don't have a pension and haven't even accrued enough for a a state one). Is that fair? Or should I stay with him?

DDs are unhappy (one is anorexic) and I know they would rather we divorce. But I can't help thinking it's desperately unfair on my sister. As an aside, I watched as both my parents nearly killed themselves making that money, and worry as my mum will see half of it go to him. He has two children from a previous marriage (my age) who don't have children of their own.

What's the right, fair and moral thing for me to do? dd1 can't wait but when I told my sister last night I was going ahead with it her reaction 'So I'll have to sell the flat?' made me question if I should just stay with him to protect her interests.

And yes, FGS find a way into that filing cabinet - preferably on a day when you know he'll be out for some time to give you a chance to find what you need and copy it. Does your home printer have a photocopying facility? If not, it might be worth swapping it for one that does. Otherwise, do you have one of those office service providers in town that does photocopying like KallKwik, or a newsagent with a photocopier you could use?

Could you ring up the manufacturer of the filing cabinet and tell them you've lost your keys, can't find them anywhere and could they send you new ones?

You can order spare keys for any filing cabinet - just quote the unique number on the key hole.

I did this when I inherited a filing cabinet at work and it had no keys.

I used this company and it cost aobut £15 for a set of two keys:

www.keysplease.co.uk/AMMEXTRANET/Public/

If you can't photocopy what's in the cabinet use a digital camera to take pics of documents.

Like other have said, get into that filling cabinet. Like the idea of using a camera. Someone you know us bound to be able to lend you one. Chances are, he's put all his up to date financial papers in one file or envelope, as he'll have been doing his sums now he knows your divorcing. I guarantee he's made sure he knows how much he has and probably has paperwork relating to your assets in there too.

Or if you have a smartphone, use an app such as Jetscanner to scan the documents to pdf with your phone.

Baby girl you need to calm down and bet close to your sister to get through this rough patch, insist on getting better representation as well and read through divorce law you will get a better understanding of what is going to happen .Morals should not keep you in a loveless marriage , your children will respect you for standing up for yourself and as you love your sister she should love you enough to work with you through all this . Most inportantly you need a lot of love , I send you loads of hugs and kisses , don't give up on you you deserve to be happy ,we women always find the strength we need somehow ,love you girl ,I am rooting for you.

Meant to add, get your sister or someone who would know what paperwork is important in amongst the pile to help you. There's less chance of missing something important if you have someone to help you. 'Accedently' leave the key in the door in case he comes back early.

If it was me, I'd get a crow bar and break that fucking lock and steal the contents. Then he'd have a huge fight on his battle and he can decide if he wants to live with a wicked witch. But I'm like that I'm not afraid.

You are going to have to smarten and wisenup pretty fast. Read read read on divorce laws and read from more authoritative sources. Speak to divorcees and get your act together. You are now living with the enemy because he will try and screw you for everything you have.

I'm sure there is an inner tiger in you.

Accidentally

Just to add to what every one else has said....Army Pension for a Lt Col...on the old system which was way better than what is available now, his pension is probably in the region of 30-40 k a year. Whether he only gets half of that now as his first wife got half (not sure if he gets that half back when she died? I guess depends what was in her will) and he would have got a huge lump sum as well....probbaly close to 80k. Im in the military, lower rank and I know what I am entitled to under the new pension so I am offering an educated guess as to what his pension actually is.

Regarding your sister....she will still have her 50% of the money from the investment property...he isn't entitled to any of her share so there is still money that she can invest elsewhere for her children. If you need to sell that is.

Break into the cabinet, photocopy/take pictures of the documents. They are shared after all.

I have to say I do get confused by the number of women on MN who don't have a clue what money their other half have/dont have....I couldn't imagine not sharing these things with my DH.

I hope you get it sorted. Fingers crossed for you.

Don't break into the cabinet. Get a spare key as suggested above and as long as he doesn't find out then you can look at and copy his files at your own pace.

If he really has no money he would have no need to be secretive about his finances, would he?

He's 77. Just wait for him to pop his clogs!

Cookiedoughkid !!!!! Jeez girl y awesome!

Could your sister buy you out, instead of selling the properties? She could get a buy-to-let mortgage at 50% of the market value (and therefore at 50% LTV). True, she'd now have to make mortgage repayments from the rental income, but she'd be receiving all of the rent as she'd no longer be sharing it with you. The mortgage interest is tax deductable too.

Can you transfer your half of the property into a trust for your daughters with your DM and DSis as trustees?

Is the solicitor hopeless, or are they telling it as it is rather than what you would like to hear? People have different morals and you really need to focus on the law because ultimately the only opinion which is binding is that of a judge determining a case.

First of all it's important to understand the differences between a solicitor and a barrister. Solicitors are litigators. They meet with a client, work out what the case is, do the paperwork, communicate with the other sides’ solicitors and where necessary instructing a barrister to advise about the law or to go to court and represent the client on their behalf. Barristers specialise in advocacy and the law or a particular area of law. Some solicitors also specialise and do their own advocacy but generally speaking barristers are the experts when it comes to presenting court cases and the law. An analogy is the difference between a GP who deals with general medicine and a consultant who specialises. Not spending money on a barrister's opinion can be a false economy because tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands can be spent fighting through the courts.

In England & Wales after a long marriage any asset (including pensions) regardless of where they originated from held in joint or sole names forms the matrimonial "pot." This is shared according to a checklist of factors in s25 Matrimonial Causes Act 1973. Sharing assets 50:50 isn't the law, or at least it's an oversimplification of the law which only really applies when there are more than enough assets to meet the needs of divorcing spouses. When there aren't enough assets the needs of the parties usually determines how the pot is split.

There is no substitute for professional legal advice about your particular circumstances but everyone in the family needs a roof over their heads. A good starting point is to consider local property prices and both spouses mortgage raising capacities. Your husband is unlikely to have any mortgage raising capacity whereas you may be able to raise some mortgage and that might actually justify a larger share of the pot in his favour. Spouse maintenance depends on the needs of the lower income spouse and the ability to pay of the higher income spouse. As some of us can testify being the main carer for children doesn't necessarily exclude someone from paying spouse maintenance.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but if you and your sister own two rental properties I would have thought one of them could have been sold and your sister could buy you out of your share of the other property so she would still have a rental income??

"Can you transfer your half of the property into a trust for your daughters with your DM and DSis as trustees?"

That isn't a great idea and could leave you subject to sanctions and penalties. When there is evidence assets have been transferred to prevent or reduce a spouse's financial claims the court can set aside the disposal - see s37 Matrimonial causes Act 1973.

Although it would be fascinating to see how he could prove the cabinet was locked if OP said it was easily openable...

OP take advice from babybarrister & STIDW - they know what they're talking about.

No you can not break into the filing cabinet.

I am in slightly the same situation. The rule is that any asset benefited from by the family during the (long) marriage will have to be put in the matrimonial pot - ie house that the family lives in. Anything inherited and not benefited from by the family it could be argued should be excluded.

He should not be able to get included in the pot your sister's half of your inheritance.

At some point he will have to produce bank statements and this will show any income he has coming in - ie from a pension. If he is paying utilities and family hols, then what with if he has no money?

50:50 split is only a starting point. If you have DC under 18 you can argue for more as reasonable needs dictate that they need to be housed/provided for (with you), while he only needs a property for himself.

I was advised by my solicitor to see a barrister as well (what is it with women with assetsinheritance?) and when I questioned it on MN was told the same thing - find another solicitor. It cost me £2,000 for the solicitor including travel expenses and about £1,000 for the solicitor. The thing that annoyed me was that the solicitor was not allowed to say a word during the meeting. If I had to do it again I would ask that the solicitor only be brought in at the end when the barrister came to his conclusion (but only if you feel confident that you know the details to give). My worry is that you will not be able to give a realistic view of both of your assets as you do not know stbx's.

Whatever you do, don't sell anything or give him anything till it is all sorted, and don't be bullied. Email your solicitor rather than phoning - it's cheaper as you always end up talking more than you mean to.

Have you exchanged financial disclosure?

Oh and if he had to pension share with his first wife (and did he really?) and she dies, I would imagine that anything from that would go to her beneficiaries. however this would need to be verified as there are different ways of splitting pensions that I have no idea about!

And you can also argue that if the DCs go to university they will still need a base until they finish as only half the year is actually spent at uni

Oh and the dogs don't figure anywhere and he's just trying to use them as a tool in getting a larger house - means nothing. i know people who had to leave their dogs behind, put them in kennels, give them away etc.

For myself I chose to rent anywhere that would take our elderly dog rather than have him put down and ended up somewhere I would not normally have chosen. At least he got another year!