Irish posters - "having a paddy"

[BarbaraHoward]

Irish posters - can I canvas your opinions on the use of "having a paddy" to mean "having a tantrum"? I've been having a bit of back and forth (well, plenty of forth not much back in truth) with MNHQ over the past day or two and I want to check that I'm not going against the majority view here.

IMO, the phrase is awful, and plainly anti Irish. I know most people using it aren't doing so to slag Irish people off, but the phrase is still awful IMO.

I've been here a long time, and reported the phrase more than I can remember. Usually, it's just deleted right away. Raising it on a thread always derails it as people just go on the offensive.

I reported it yesterday and got the immediate email that it was being checked out, but the post stayed up for hours despite a follow up email, another post and a thread in Site Stuff. It was then edited rather than deleted, which I thought was the norm for offensive language. I reported another use this morning and it's still up.

What are your views? Is this a fight worth having with MNHQ or am I out of step with the majority of Irish posters on here?

Thanks :)

@BarbaraHoward His parents were from Dublin

Nope I saw it this month in Cork city advertising tourist tours. On the Paddy Wagon.

It is the poster’s Irish mother that uses it.

I find it weird how defensive people get over it. I used to use it as a saying, when I found out quite a few people find it offensive (and why), I stopped. It's more important to me to be considerate than it is to use that phrase, and it's not like there aren't plenty of other ways to describe a tantrum!

People telling you a saying is offensive and racist isn't them saying YOU are offensive and racist, so you don't need to get defensive about it. Just, you know, stop. And just because not all Irish people are offended doesn't mean it's fine - why would you want to be potentially offending a load of people unnecessarily?!

Having a paddy is only used in the Uk

I had no idea what it meant the first time I heard it (in the UK)

It has offensive roots for sure but I don't think that people saying it realise

Irish twins is commonly used in Ireland. I wouldn't think this to be offensive at all.

Maybe it's only me who had never heard the term Irish twins until reading this thread! 🙄 I had to look it up to be sure of the meaning.

I've never used the phrase "having a Paddy" although I seem to remember it being in reasonably common usage years ago. I don't plan on using Irish twins either.

I asked for Irish people's opinions.

But it’s a reference to a padded wagon/ padded cell, isn’t it? I’ve never heard of it being associated with Irish people.it just happens to be the same word as the name Paddy.

I am Irish and I had never heard the term until moved to England... I also didn't know a lot about how Irish people were treated in England until I moved there.

Paddy wagon, having a paddy and Irish twins... all offend me.

Of course it's offensive, anybody with even the vaguest notion of the history of British colonisation of Ireland should see the pattern of stereotyping the natives to justify taking over their country to 'civilise' them. Dirty, lazy, stupid, incapable of controlling their emotions - that's where 'having a paddy comes from'.

Not long after I came to England, somebody said 'That's a bit Irish!' about something they didn't understand. I hadn't a clue what they meant, and asked for an explanation. 'You know, Irish - it means stupid, doesn't it?'
I was astonished, I'd never heard that before, and assumed they didn't realise I was Irish.
So I said, 'That's really offensive, and I am Irish you know.' And they just said 'Yeah of course I know' and then accused me of being nasty to them!
I checked, and 'Irish' meaning 'stupid' was actually in the dictionary at the time.

I'm gratified by the number of people who have come on here and said 'I've used 'having a paddy' for decades, I never realised it was offensive, but now I know, I'll stop using it'. Thank you.

On the other hand, people who say 'Paddy is just a common Irish name' can't also claim 'I never realised paddy was anything to with being Irish'... !

Outside the fence?

Don't think anyone is saying you're wrong not to be offended.
What's getting people's backs up is you saying none of us who are offended can possibly be Irish.
And implying we're snowflakes.
If that's misconstruing your posts/viewpoint well then I apologise.

Edited for spelling

I have only ever heard Irish people use the phrase "plastic Paddy" when referring to people of Irish Heritage or people who had left the old country!

Nope, they are still Paddy wagons and just to really pile it on they have Leprechauns on them as well. Sail past my house daily and cant move for them in the summer

I think some of the issues - with this type of casual racism and the accompanying (and I think mostly genuine) shock that these terms are offensive - stem from the history curriculum in England. My daughter had a total of 45mins on the English subjugation and occupation of Ireland in her entire 12 years' of school there*.
It made me realise how little English people know about their closest neighbour, and our brutal shared history, and I agree with a PP that I met several people over the years that didn't even realise Ireland is a separate, sovereign nation. Sure even some senior politicians exposed their woeful ignorance of the history when it came to Brexit and Northern Ireland.
*she got a rude awakening when she went to school in Ireland and had to catch up on 800 years of resistance in one term :D

I’ve only heard the phrase ‘throwing a paddy’ on MN and thought it was obvious what it meant - and why it’s offensive. Only ever heard Irish twins on an American TV movie and had to look it up - cringe and offensive.
Posters who say people are easily offended haven’t had sectarian or racist shit directed at them over a lifetime.

@Runssometimes

Same old. OP asks for if you are Irish are you offended and gets a slew of “my granny/uncle/DH” isn’t offended.

Yeah? SO?

I am entitled to post that my (Irish) DH, and his parents, and his extended family are NOT offended!

This is a discussion about whether Irish people are offended by certain terms. I am posting my views based on the many Irish people I know - including MY HUSBAND!

Have you considered that they don’t want to be arguing about it?

No. They are simply not offended by it.

I know that doesn't suit your narrative, but some Irish people aren't offended by it. NEWSFLASH! People are different! I know! Shocking right?!!! 😱

.

I always assumed it was more to do with the old roman catholic church stance on contraception being a sin. tbf civilised sex sounds like missionary position, clothes on and followed by a nice cup of tea.

I have heard it in NZ and Australia. Granted NZ often sounds a bit like Ulster Scots. Now I have probably upset people from New Zealand.

I'm Irish and live in Ireland.
I haven't hear it used in Ireland.

It's offensive asis Irish Twins.
I've reported both a few times in the past too.

I understand that some may be unaware that it's offensive and that's understandable and when pointed out most people apologise and don't use it again.

What's really offensive us those who double down on their usage and object to people finding it offensive.

At what point do some terms come to have their own meaning that is no longer associated with or related to the original meaning?

Is there an argument for the meaning remaining offensive because some people insist on keeping alive that original meaning?

If most people using a particular phrase, lets say 'beyond the pale', are doing so without any notion of it's original context/meaning, and zero intent to be offensive, then are we not just causing an issue where there didn't need to be one?

Meanings of words and phrases do evolve - not all, by any means and there are some I think should not be forgotten or allowed to evolve. But some are now so far past what they originally meant...

eg. 'cor blimey/blimey' now means 'oh gosh' or 'oh wow'.. not 'god blind me' even if that is its origin.

Of course I am not suggesting we sweep under the carpet and forget the wrongs done to various peoples - but I also think that by refusing to let certain phrases evolve, and by then berating people for using them without knowing their dim and distant origins, we're causing people to be less willing to interact and speak and share ideas and ... that can't be a good thing!

Oh I don't know about that. I think the Americans get it ten times worse on here.

Point taken.

I'm just meaning that nobody who actually knows it relates to the Irish and uses it really believes all Irish people constantly have meltdowns.

But paddywhack is a dialect term that isn't related to the other meaning, or wasn't in its original form but we have now conflated.

The dictionary still lists two separate meanings.

And then paddy as in rice is another meaning and there's no suggestion to stop that.

Is bedlam also banned for example?

My nan was Irish and used this term. Melt down is offensive.

The etymology of tantrum isn't agreed upon. With suggestions it could come from the tarantula dance, involuntary movement after a spider bite or one of the earliest written references is about Apollo being sodomized. So not great either

Well said. Thanks.