Irish posters - "having a paddy"

[BarbaraHoward]

Irish posters - can I canvas your opinions on the use of "having a paddy" to mean "having a tantrum"? I've been having a bit of back and forth (well, plenty of forth not much back in truth) with MNHQ over the past day or two and I want to check that I'm not going against the majority view here.

IMO, the phrase is awful, and plainly anti Irish. I know most people using it aren't doing so to slag Irish people off, but the phrase is still awful IMO.

I've been here a long time, and reported the phrase more than I can remember. Usually, it's just deleted right away. Raising it on a thread always derails it as people just go on the offensive.

I reported it yesterday and got the immediate email that it was being checked out, but the post stayed up for hours despite a follow up email, another post and a thread in Site Stuff. It was then edited rather than deleted, which I thought was the norm for offensive language. I reported another use this morning and it's still up.

What are your views? Is this a fight worth having with MNHQ or am I out of step with the majority of Irish posters on here?

Thanks :)

Also used in the context of an area of land Jews were allowed in to live in Russia under the Czars. 'The pale of settlement'.

I don't think saying beyond the pale is racist or anti-semitic/anti-Irish.

More of a bad reflection on the Russians/English.

I'm northern Irish and I loathe it.

I never knew it was offensive and is used all the time where I live to mean tantrum.

lived in Ireland for many years and never heard anyone say having a paddy.

And Irish people are pretty placid and calm compared to many other nationalities.

Whether or not people find a phrase offensive; surely once they have learned it is based in racism; they should have enough decency and respect to not use that phrase!

As the moderators, mumsnet should remove/edit/clarify when posts are unintentionally using racist slurs, regardless of which group are the target of those slurs. see also “nitty gritty” which is used so often and really shouldn’t be!

That at least has a root in history (which was pretty dreadful). The other is just insulting.

Right, so we can all start using the N-word then since some black people use it???

Yes, because the troubles in Northern Ireland caused so much anti Essex sentiment, this is a fantastic comparison 🙄🤦‍♀️

It is clearly offensive, as it plays on the anti-Irish slur that Irish people are all hot-headed savages who can't control their tempers.

But I'm not surprised you're having a back and forth with @mnhq about it: anti-Irish sentiment is the last acceptable racism in England.

I'm Irish and I hate the term, but I wouldn't immediately assume whoever is using it is being purposefully offensive. I've met a scary number of Brits who don't even know that Ireland is a separate country, so I would likely blame ignorance rather than malice.

Same old. OP asks for if you are Irish are you offended and gets a slew of “my granny/uncle/DH” isn’t offended. Have you considered that they don’t want to be arguing about it? Maybe they laugh along with turty tree and a turd it fillum as well. It’s fecking exhausting arguing about things.

I’m born and bred Irish, moved over here in my 20s and never ever heard the phrase till I lived in the UK in an office said by a HR person. It immediately jarred and I said “that’s a bit racist isn’t it” and no they assured me they were not white so couldn’t possibly be racist.

The origins of the phrase are pejorative. Whilst many Irish people may decide they are fine with it, or just choose not to correct people the fact remains that many, as have said here are not. I hate it and will pick it up every time. But I accept that often it’s not meant to be used offensively, but once explained why argue with someone and tell them what they may/may not have an issue with. We’ve had centuries of that shite.

So maybe instead of arguing just accept it and find other words, a good indication that it’s offensive is the fact that it’s not common in Ireland as plenty of people have said.

Just accept it’s problematic, use other words and live your lives.

I am Irish and it doesn't bother me. I use it and so does my Dad who was Baptised Patrick and introduced himself as Paddy. Although, my Scottish mum calls him Pat. My son is named after him. My Scottish mum refers to DH as a sassenach!

I honestly didn't know the history of the term until fairly recently despite parents both being Irish (and having an uncle Padraig who'd say it often!).

So I can understand people using it without realising and I think that's forgiveable.

I suppose the difference is once I was told by an Irish friend that it was offensive I stopped saying it. Because I'm (hopefully!) not an arse.

The name paddy is not offensive. Lots of people are called paddy. It's the term "having a paddy" that's offensive

@Sugarcoldturkey

Right, so we can all start using the N-word then since some black people use it???

Stupid response. There is agreement in society that it is offensive, apart from in some black communities between themselves.

There are Irish people on this thread saying they don't find it offensive. Hence, confusing, as I said.

And when some people answer no to being offended, that's wrong apparently. Why ask?

To "welsh on a deal" is by far the more offensive slur, as is the old children's rhyme "Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief".

They use it in new zealand. Have never heard it used in uk

Beyond the pale - a pale is a boundary - which is how The Pale came to be called The Pale - so it's really not specific to Ireland - it would mean outside the pale ie - outside the boundary of any village/camp/whatever was enclosed by that pale.

It's got nothing to do with being called Patrick or Paddy or Pat, that's NOT the offensive part.

The offensive part is referring to Irish people as 'Paddy' regardless of what their actual name is, and continuing to perpetuate the myth that the Irish are bad tempered.

It's like calling all Spaniards 'Pedro' and then attaching something insulting about the Spanish temperament.

You live and grew up in Ireland and use the term throwing a paddy?

Irish, and not the least offended by either term. Particularly "Beyond the Pale" which has an historical meaning.

This historical term refers to the Pale of Settlement where Jewish people were moved to small country settlements in 19th century Russia away from the major towns.

The point is that when reported it has been deleted as standard for years, after a series of lengthy discussions. But this week it isn't.

Not wanting to speak for all Irish people, I wanted to canvas the Irish population of MN before I try take it up with them again and try get to the bottom of why the policy changed.

Yes, but people seem to be wilfully ignorant about that!