Gender Critical in Ireland Part 4

[MaeveofConnaught]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/craicnet/4777231-gender-critical-in-ireland-part-3?page=40&reply=139277391
Last thread was full so starting a new one.

Very true.

Yes, I agree 100% with this. And it's wearing thin now. I am sick of all the weak-willed men.

Thank you re the important bit but.. 'gotten'?
I have never heard an Irish person saying 'gotten', and I've never seen it in print either, until very recently. Unless it was a very local dialect word - but I've lived in quite a few places in Ireland and never heard it.

I think it's like 'bathroom' for toilet🙄

It's very commonly used where I live. And I've heard it in many other parts of the country.

James Joyce used it quite a bit in his writings too if you fancy revisiting Ulysses and Dubliners.

I say it sometimes.. 'I've gotten cold', 'I've gotten used to it' for example :-) Maybe it's a bit like "I'm after doing something'.

I say gotten all the time (Cork)!
Got actually sounds wrong sometimes to my ear. I usually wouldn’t write gotten, so I’d have to recast the sentence as the word got in its place would sound wrong.
I often use bathroom for toilet too tbh 😅

..as in a direct translation from Irish.

I would use got and gotten differently. Got is a single moment in time (I got up) whereas gotten is a bit more continuous (she’s gotten tall).

Yes, exactly, and it’s useful to have both.

I hear gotten from quite a few people round these parts. We also used to have older men who used 'begorr' which tends to get dismissed as stage Irishry - I hope it isn't dying out.

Happy St Patrick's Day.

Re 'gotten' - oh fair enough so, Ted😄
But I cling to the belief that it would never have appeared in 'Standard' written or spoken Hiberno until recently.
I'll get back to you when I've read every single page of Joyce to see if he uses 'gotten'. Not.😁

Does 'ill-gotten gains' count?

I've used it all my life and I'm 61 so not exactly recent here 😁

I would offer to quiz you on Joyce but I've never managed to finish ullysses (or even the first chapter). I couldn't cope with the lack of proper punctuation.

I have a tough relationship with Joyce: Dubliners I liked, Ulysses I tolerated, and Finnegan’s Wake I considered to be gibberish.

I have an equally tough relationship with Patrick Kavanagh - I find his writing to be hard work.

I don’t know why I find so much of the Irish literature I’ve read to be uninspiring 🙁

And don’t get me started on Peig 😣

I agree with you re Dubliners. I just abandoned Joyce after my many failed attempts at Ulysses so never even tried finnegan’s wake.

I like Patrick kavanagh’s poetry but not his books. I have recently started re-reading Flann O’Brien. Absolutely love him. An Beál Bocht is an excellent antidote to Péig.

Good article on the 'manosphere' in today's Irish Times.
It doesn't blame feminists, and it doesn't say that critiquing toxic masculinity is in some way 'demonising' boys, rather than trying to save them from it.
Louis Theroux’s take on the manosphere chills the blood – The Irish Times

I've heard begor and bygor here in Cork , usually older people. But never heard begorrah! Older people also use Irish syntax eg ' My sister is living in Australia with twenty years '. Direct translation from Irish - although there's very few native speakers hereabouts.

Some of my elders - from the Pale, many generations away from being Irish speakers -used to say 'if it's a thing' which is a direct translation of 'Má's rud é'

'Go down to the O'Connors and if it's a thing that Mary is there, tell her to call up tomorrow...'

And they used to say Wirra! and Wisha! as terms of dismissal or annoyance.
They also used 'plámás'.

Years hence, in rustic speech, a phrase
As in rough earth a Grecian vase

I’ve heard wisha - wisha now and begor.
I use plamás myself. 😀

My grandmother was a great one for wirrastrue (Mary/Mhuire pity), musha and wisha. And would have insisted she knew no Irish.

Wisha. That takes me back ...my mam used to say that with a heartfelt sigh.

I just listened to this YouTube video from the Natural Women's council. They are highlighting the dangerous messages about gender ideology that are being taught to Irish children in Well being and SPHE books and strongly urge parents to ask to see the books to check out the content, which you are perfectly entitled to do. The books are available online but the full content is not available and they have hidden the questionable chapters from view. Some of the books contain extremely age-inappropriate information on sexual relations as well as content normalising children identifying as whatever gender they want. (eg. the gender bread person).
s

There was an article in The Sunday Times about the Scottish government at the weekend titled How the SNP spends billions ‘to buy loyalty from charities’. It was highlighted on the FWR board here and here. I feel FG/FF run Ireland the same way, on behalf of whoever is giving them their orders.