Anna Kreigel murder case

[Betaboo]

I guess we can't discuss the trial, but the details coming out from the evidence is sickening, the poor child's death was horrific ! Her poor parents knowing how their daughters final hours were full of such suffering and terror.

[Bythebanksof]

Yes, that's certainly the defense approach. In these cases it will be interesting to see the phrasing/language of the judge charging the jury. If convicted by jury, manslaughter and considering the young age, results in HUGE judge discretion/scope with respect to sentences.

[Fairyjuice]

I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to have been any witnesses called for boy a, no version of events put forward or anything like that. There was so much from boy b with interviews and his father etc.

Horrific case That poor girls family, and the family of those 2 boys too

[Betaboo]

It looks like the Judge has directed the jury to either convict them of murder or acquit, no option to convict them of manslaughter.

It will be absolutely horrendous if they get away with it!

The judge with his direction to the jury in regards to the teens lying to ''put your teenage glasses on', what utter crap is that ! Most teens would not commit that kind of brutality nor lie is such a sophisticated and calm manner over multiple interviews. Teenage glasses are worthless and pointless in this case !

I would hate to be the jury, I really hope they do the right thing for Anna, I hope they read and re-read the extent of the injuries she received, I hope they have it up on the wall so they can refer to that every time they have to consider the evidence against these boys.

[Fairyjuice]

I agree. What was done to Ana was something that would never cross a normal person's mind regardless of age. Before the trial, I thought it was maybe a case of a situation gone very wrong on the spur of the moment by 2 lads with very bad foresight and a lack of understanding of the finality of their actions. But the evidence given has shown it to be almost the opposite of that. I really hope the family get justice.

[Bythebanksof]

I read (not directly, the press) reports of Justice McDermott charge to the jury. Some of it is really hard to understand based on the public reports to date. I could guess the outcome ....

[Betaboo]

Bythebanksof, I think a lot of people are flabbergasted by the Judges summing up and direction to the jury, I am hoping it is only because we are getting snippets of it and the full direction is a lot more balanced in terms of the crime and the evidence.

[LastChanceFinalOffer]

I'm praying for justice for Ana and her parents. CCTV and DNA are massively important in this case. The forensic specialists, Gardai and State Pathologist did amazing work.

[gabsdot45]

I've found this case so upsetting. My kids are Russian Adoptees and we met Anna a few months before she died at an adoption event.
Anna reminds me a lot of my daughter. Someone a bit different, a bit odd, looks older than she is.

I can't understand why they didn't please guilty. The evidence is very damming. I think Boy B might get away with it but not Boy A. The DNA evidence puts him right there. His parents should have made him plead guilty. Then this awful trial could have been avoided.
I also think it's terrible that such cruel things have been said about Anna. The boys are anonymous.
The verdict should come in this week. I hope justice is done and that Anna's parents can get some closure, if that's possible God love them.

[CharityDingle]

That's what I hope and pray for too. Let justice be done.

Nothing will ever make up for the terrible loss, nothing will ever compensate for the life of that beautiful child brutally taken at such a young age.

But at least let justice be done.

[Annasgirl]

Both boys found guilty - I thought when the jury asked to relook at evidence that they might not convict Boy B - but from what we heard of the trial, I think this is the best result.

[Annasgirl]

They have not been in custody to date (!) but are in custody now. Judge has discretion on the length of the sentence as they were children (I won't add what I think they were, under the law they were children). So he can give them a very light sentence if he wishes - still a bit of waiting. He will not deliver sentence for a few weeks (no idea why).

[LastChanceFinalOffer]

Independent.ie is reporting that both boys have been found guilty by the jury.

[Sakura7]

Common sense prevailed. At least Ana's family have justice, but what the have been put through is utterly appalling.

I also agree that the things said about Ana were just awful. Many of us were 'odd' as teenagers, so what? I'd rather be odd than a murdering piece of shit. It sounds like she was bullied and felt very alone and vulnerable, poor thing.

RIP Ana and I hope her family can start to heal. I also hope the boys don't get a lenient sentence on account of their age.

[Tonightstheteriyakichicken]

I appreciate those found guilty were 13 at the time but very warped for anyone to think someone who was 'different' and friendless was there to be abused and ultimately disposable. RIP Ana.

[Annasgirl]

Oh what that boy B said about Anna - I would despair at thinking that was how all young boys talk about girls. But to be fair, I have a DS and he and his friends do not talk like that. And I am not naive, but I think the way he spoke indicated someone who is not really in the usual boy range of thinking and talking about girls.

I wondered why on earth they did not enter a guilty plea and avoid even more pain to her parents - did they really think there was a chance that they would get a lower sentence?

[LastChanceFinalOffer]

They may get a more lenient sentence because they pleaded 'not guilty'? There was a lot of evidence against Boy A but Boy B could have got away with it if the jury had any doubt about his intentions. The CCTV was the key and Ana's Dad seeing her leaving the house with Boy B. Hopefully the people who bullied Ana will take a long hard look at their behaviour now too.

[RedForShort]

Why was Ana 'odd' anyway. Compared to teenagers who plan to beat, rape and murder I doubt she was in any form.

It's so awful. Nothing will give peace to her parents, but I hope their sentence isn't shockingly lenient.

[RedForShort]

Annasgirl do I want to know what boy b saud about her? I doubt it, my knowledge of the case is low on detail by choice. It's horrible enough without them.

[LoeweMulberry]

Well both found guilty. I am glad. Boy b didnt do the right thing. We all need to tell our sons to do the right thing not the wrong thing. I tried to talk to my son ystrdy (13). It didnt go well. It is a hard conversation but i will try again.
Boy B's parents love him. It is do shocking.

[LoeweMulberry]

As for boy A, i am sure the sentencing will be different for boy A and boy B

[Sakura7]

They may get a more lenient sentence because they pleaded 'not guilty'?

Is it not the other way round? I thought the benefit of pleading guilty was that its accounted for in your sentencing, as you're accepting responsibility and not putting the family through a trial.

[LastChanceFinalOffer]

I thought the benefit of pleading guilty was that its accounted for in your sentencing, as you're accepting responsibility and not putting the family through a trial.
They might get a shorter sentence because they are minors in the eyes of the law. The trial was made as child friendly as possible-boys sat with their families, legal personnel didn't wear their full attire, the boys got to leave court room during Dr Marie Cassidy's testimony.

When they pleaded 'not guilty', they were given the benefit of 'innocent until proven guilty'. It was the Prosecution's responsibility to prove 'guilt beyond reasonable doubt'. The judge is waiting on probation reports before deciding on their sentences. AFAIK they are being held in a juvenile detention centre until July awaiting sentencing. They are the youngest people to be convicted of murder in the history of the state.
I wonder if their denial of guilty indicates their psychiatric state. There was no mention in the media of them being assessed. It's hard to contemplate how they carried on as 'normal' after committing such an awful murder. It's sad for all involved.

[beanaseireann]

Watching the RTE news and photos of Ana and her family.
What a dreadful death.
Her poor family and friends.
How can those boys sleep at night?
Or their parents?
I've heard stuff but it's only hearsay so I won't share it.
Those who bullied her should hang their heads in shame.

Hopefully around the country parents will open their eyes to what their children are watching and planning to do to innocents.
I despair at some of the parenting I see.