Irish mn'ers, how much can you relate to UK mumsnetters?

[Anotherdayanotherdollar]

I read a lot of different threads on here, and recently I have come across so many issues/practices that I think just don't happen in Ireland. Now, I could be completely off the mark here, obviously there's local/cultural differences everywhere!

I don't know any parents who attend childrens birthday parties with their children (unless family etc),

I'm not aware of any dads who work "compressed hours" to care for their children. Although I know a lot of parents who work opposite shifts I suppose.

Funerals and the culture and practices surrounding death are all very different.

I don't have an abundance of parks/softplay/childrens activities nearby. If I did I'm sure they'd be too expensive to just pop in after school etc. 2 within 40 mins drive of me are €8-10 per hr.

Most children just go to their local school (baptism barrier dependent)

New mums here all seem to be inundated with visitors in hospital after their babies are born. I've never come across a new mum who isn't having visitors for the first week/fortnight etc so that they can bond.

Just a few examples there. So, are these typical observations of Irish people? Or just where I live/work? I know that local amenities are dependent on funding etc but it just seems that despite our close proximity to the UK there are big differences in day to day life.
I hope that all comes across ok. I'm just curious really.

" I am still wrong footed by the attitudes to death here, waiting three weeks for a funeral for example. "

but that is not a societal attitude to death, it is because there are so many more people here, esp in London.
One friend has recently died, and isn't to be cremated for another 2 weeks. so 3 - 4 weeks altogether. Not his family's choice I am sure.

Is there much difference culturaly between different areas of Ireland? There is in Scotland I think. East/west split on whether you do the slosh at weddings!

I think the split is more broadly rural vs Dublin - though of course there are lots of other variations (and other cities!)

I am going to a funeral in an hour and I'm dreading it. Lovely, life long family friend of 88 who was so many things to so many people. I will miss her, but she was living independantly until a few weeks before she died and didn't suffer.

I'm dreading it because of the invitation only thing (wtaf , three week wait, and because the funeral will be 15 minutes with some vicar she never met, followed by standing around with a tiny cup of tea for half an hour in a stuffy hotel (which she would have hated). Give me an Irish funeral any day! It's at times like this that I really feel un-English*

I have left money in my will for a proper send off, including money for behind the bar.

*I know, not all English funerals, but I seem to get more than my share of this kind.

I’m a doctor who trained in Ireland and works in England now. I think there’s a huge difference in attitudes to death. I was shocked when I started working here how many elderly people and their families or people with terminal illness had not considered how they would like their final years/weeks to be. That’s pretty unheard of in Ireland. Probably because we were all brought up going to wakes and funerals regularly. There’s a clearer acceptance of death as a part of life.

Otherwise the drama around schools here seems mad!

My friends here who have had babies have all been keen to show them off ASAP though, and happy to have family help so that may be a Mumsnet issue!

Scottish here:

• always get a biscuit/cake or something with tea or coffee
• children mostly go to their local school
• parents attend parties up to the point where they can be sure their child won't wet themselves/be too clingy to leave (so maybe aged 4/5?)
• I do know quite a few dads (and mums) who work compressed hours, but that's job dependent - seems to mostly be academics/seniorish public sector
• funerals are routinely within a few days unless post-mortem or similar and certainly no invitation
• Normally you visit new mums within a few days, or in hospital if close family/best friend
• We say Santa not Father Christmas
• average age of a first time mother in my area is well into the 30s now so I'd say CherryBlossom's experience is area dependent and not down to nationality.

oh here we go, why not just start a thread about the general superiority of Irish , Scottish and Welsh over English ?

Why don't you start it Four because this thread isn't it?

Yeah I think my new mother experience is area dependent @sleepyhead, I'm sure there's plenty of 30+ new mothers about too. But both of the funerals were Scottish and had 3+ week wait and invitation only. Maybe it depends on the family/area? It was Glasgow so I'm sure there's a lot of demand. It was so odd being in a half empty church for a funeral though, and not having anyone queueing to offer their sympathies after the mass. Made it seem very lonely.

I can't see why there would be a 3+ week wait unless there was a reason not to release the body? Or family not able to get home before then? Or maybe local undertakers overstretched for some reason? What an awful limbo to be in until then.

Dh went to a neighbour's funeral last year where he was one of only 4 attending. It was very sad - man was an alcoholic and estranged from his family. Attendees were dh, the bar manager from his local and a couple of people who had known him when he was younger. The locals from the pub who had drunk with him for decades didn't even bother to show.

I am an English mnetter- could the Irish mnetters please explain how they manage to get funerals organised so quickly? Both my parents took 6 weeks, delays with the coroner (their deaths were not unusual, just not seen recently by their GP )and having to reopen an existing grave in the local authority cemetery to bury them. The delays made the whole situation worse than it should have been.

It's a discussion of the differences, fourfried, not the inferiorities.
I'm as English as a very English thing, and I find it fascinating. The variations between regions, families, classes, countries, all within one small area of the globe are amazing really.

oh here we go, why not just start a thread about the general superiority of Irish , Scottish and Welsh over English ?

That's not the intention of this thread at all.
It was to gain a better insight into daily living that I read about on mumsnet and I wondering if the differences were down to my local area, or if it was an Irish/UK cultural thing. I didn't differentiate between different countries in the UK.

Also, the examples I used weren't derogatory. If anything, I think they were more negative towards the Irish e.g. dads not changing work hours to contribute to childcare, lack of facilities for play, parents assuming that the local school "is grand" and not exploring other options.

In the op I did say that I hoped that the post came across ok, I was just to satisfy a curiosity.

That said, it would appear the Irish are much better (and relaxed) with death and dying.

I grew up in England but my Mum is Irish and I have visited Ireland every year since I was born and obviously have a tonne of family there - been to umpteen significant events in both countries.

For me, death & funerals are the big stand out difference, when I am endlessly wrong-footed. In England, someone dies, you have a fairly modest funeral 2-3 weeks after they die for close friends & family who knew the dead person well and that's pretty much it. In Ireland there is a huge event around someone dying & you have to bury them within 3 days. The whole town turns out, if not half the county and you have to provide food for them, you shake all their hands if you have the body at home & then you shake all their hands in the church as well. Then you have the wake, more food & drink this time too. Then all the people whose hand you shook send a mass card, just in case you hadn't quite clocked their condolences the first two times. Then there are a number of masses at anniversary months & years later. All of which need some kind of acknowledgement.

So, on the one hand, I think English people are repressed about death but on the other hand I think the Irish approach is exhausting!

I find the Irish approach to parenting far more laid back than English parenting. During the holidays at least (as I'm not usually there in term time) kids still run around more outside and occupy themselves, without endless supervision and monitoring. I love that but it is hard to recreate in most places in the UK.

Having lived for most of my life in cities or big towns in the UK, I find everyone knowing everyone in Ireland endearing & suffocating in equal measure. On the one hand it means you are somehow always connected to someone who will welcome you, give you an introduction or help you - on the other hand every fucker knows your business and you can't do a thing without it being remembered for decades to come! You get it a bit in villages in the UK but not to the same extent I don't think.

The older I get, the more I notice the differences - not in a bad way, but I am conscious of it more.

" That's not the intention of this thread at all. "

I am sure it wasn't...:) I didn't even mean you tbh.

Sort of butting in here, I am not Irish, and admit to having never been to Ireland (although I wish to), but I am also not in the UK and i find some of the normal practices very odd as well. I think we live a bit more of a laid back life. I agree with @MarDhea.

It is the same here wrt funerals. The funeral will be held within 3-4 days of the death, and sometimes sooner if culture dictates. African funerals are well known to be very big affairs, going on for days. It is a celebration of life rather than the mourning of the loss.

I actually find the Irish funerals can be exhausting for the bereaved especially if it has been a very tragic or sudden death. I prefer the English way except for the long wait.

I'm edinburgh originally but we currently have over a two week wait for the crem, less so if it's a burial. No invitations other than the announcement in the paper, announcement at the funeral as to where the "refreshments" will be. My DM had a prepay funeral with money put aside for the food and bar bill. Reletives, friends and neighbours and in-laws families and folk from our works all attended. Most didn't come afterwards as people had to get back to work.

There are many many things that I think are done better in England so it's not a bashing thread I don't think.

@Melfish I think it's just cultural. Everyone knows that funerals happen quickly so there's a system in place to deal with it. Muslim and Jewish communities have funerals very soon after death also, even in England so it can be done.

Obviously the coroner can hold things up in Ireland too, but also tend to turn things around within a few days, as it is expected by the families.

@Melfish, I don't know the exact ins and outs but it just happens. When a person is pronounced dead, provided there's no need for a post mortem or autopsy the family get in contact with the undertakers, I presume that day or the next morning. Undertakers will dress and present the body and then you either have the removal that evening or next (so 1-2 days after death) in the funeral home or someone's house if you choose. The grave will be dug either by the local authority or by friends and neighbours (rural/countryside areas only, becoming more rare) on the day after death. It's not unusual for family members and close friends to take it in turns to stay with the body until the funeral ceremony, especially if it's a younger person. Funeral mass and burial/cremation/whatever will take place the next day (3 days after death). Funeral homes in cities often have a few removals on at the same time/ evening so that maybe accounts for less waiting about. I think in Ireland there's less formal bodies involved. Someone dies and that's it, friends and neighbours all help the family with organising as much as they can.
Having a body languishing in a morgue for 6 weeks while you wait for a funeral seems really sad to me.

Can I just jump in to point out that reason funerals take longer to organise is because there is far greater pressure on crematoriums, funeral directors etc Ireland is a very small country, England is huge by comparison.

It's not that we can't be bothered burying them!! The funeral director will give you the next available date. If someone dies in mid-December you're screwed and will be waiting until January because there is such a terrible backlog. Other than that 1 week, 2 at the most is usual.

You would find that a Catholic funeral would feel just the same as an Irish one, because most Catholics in the UK are of Irish extraction. But I have attended plenty of English funerals that have been well-attended (no such thing as getting invited, that's absurd) with a small reception afterwards.

Wakes are much less common though. That's true. And bodies are not laid out at home, they stay at the undertakers.

One of the big differences i have noticed is the massive wealth of some posters. In Ireland our family are considered middle class - own home two cars two jobs both degree educated and in middle management positions. We work hard and are very comfortable and greateful for our life but we buy bog standard things like dulux paint not farrow and ball we save for the year to have a self catering holiday and don’t have designer clothes or hobbies. I’m often surprised at how affluent some of the parents from the UK are on here.

melfish
In Ireland when people die it's usual that the body is returned to the family either the following day or the day after that again. Obviously post mortems affect this and take longer for body to be released.
The body is often waked in the house and everybody will come to pay their respects. Tea/cake/sandwiches 24/7.
In a funeral home it'll be the same time frame but with "opening hours", that only "outsiders" need to pay any heed to. If the wake is in the house there will be people with the body overnight as well. In my local town there are people to do this if there aren't enough family members. There is often a removal of the body to the church the night before the funeral, (great if you can't get off work to attend the funeral!), although oftentimes if the wake is in the house the body is just brought to the church the morning of the funeral. Mourners and funeral goers tend to walk behind the hearse at least part way (distance dependant) both before and after the funeral service. Its quite common to try to pass the deceased persons home or other place of importance on the way to the graveyard.
I suppose it might be quicker because there's fewer people dying, fewer cremations and more use of (widely available) churches.

Some things to note:
A good funeral can be better than a bad wedding.
You'd be buried before you realise that you're dead.
Being seen at the funeral/removal is an important part!
So, as you can see, we're pretty relaxed about it!

@Omega1 I think we assumed that, not saying you enjoy having them lying around -pardon the pun. Ireland is lucky in that respect. I wonder if the shortage of priests that's happening will mean longer waiting times in the coming years. I also don't think people mean you get an actual invitation, in my experience it's more like you only go if someone from the family gets in contact with you to tell you about funeral arrangements. In Ireland they literally read the death announcements and funeral arrangements on the radio everyday, multiple times a day, so the whole community can go if they want. People in the UK don't just seem to turn up to funerals because they vaguely knew someone or knew the dead person's son/daughter/niece/uncle. In Ireland that's the norm.

Ireland definitely has a healthier approach to death, yes. We in England are very uptight about it and don't like the mention it to the relatives afterwards. I have lots of Irish family so I see these little differences. Here people will avoid you if you've lost your husband or cross the road because they don't know what to say or fear upsetting you. They're not unfeeling, just have no tools to handle the situation. Irish people are more at ease with the concept.

I remember the first time I sat in a room with the deceased body laid out in front of us. I was shaking before I entered the room but once we'd been in there a while and said prayers and chatted quietly, it felt very beautiful and natural and helpful.