Doctor salary

[Jessica231]

I was shocked to learn today what a junior Doctor is actually paid. No wonder the NHS is in such a state.

£14 per hour for a newly qualified doctor…

£24 per hour for 8+ years of experience….

I pay my cleaner more…..

Embarrassed to say this is something I wasn’t aware of! The pay seems totally incompatible with the time they spend training, skills required and the responsibility involved.

Anyone else shocked?

Couldn't agree more. Medics & university academics are up there with the shittest & worst paid jobs you can do while also having to be crazily highly qualified and bright. What a waste of talent.

It's also madness that you could get sent to any hospital over such a huge area. Who can really live like that?! It was in the news today about Amazon closing some distribution centres and works being offered jobs at centres 2hrs away - of course that's ridiculous and people won't take it if they have commitments to their local area but that is literally what our NHS demands of junior docs all the time. It's shit, at least pay them properly. And the nurses and AHPs while you're at it!

My DC told me that doctors today earn 30% less than their colleagues 15 years ago. Not to mention student loans, and the rising cost of living/house prices that affect those in the in profession today.

My DS is a medical student, and I'm worried about his future! I feel bad about the prospects of today's medical students and doctors. Any other MNers supporting strikes?! 💙

I support all strikers. I was on a picket line myself yesterday.

Australia is ridiculously expensive so that would probably be comparable with minimum wage here
a few lads at work have come back from oz too expensive .
wages far higher but cost of living considerably more

Reading through these responses and this one really struck me. I really, really hope you're okay. Your efforts and profession are valued more than I imagine anyone shows you. I hope things change for the better whatever that may be for you.

Could have written this myself. I was also child of single mother with absolutely no idea how modern careers worked and no social capital whatsoever. I was a doctor but found it intolerable. Changed careers several years ago.

You've got your numbers pretty far wrong. Training is up to about 60k (usually around 40-50 and that includes overtime so is usually for about 65h a week - yes that's illegal but the system forces it off paper). The end of training is consultant which starts at 76k.
Pay starts after completion of 5-6 years of medical school.

I retrained in something else too. But I don't regret doing medicine. Sorry to hear that's been your experience and hope things are going better for you now.
One of the biggest issues I've found is people outside the medical profession assume if you've left that you've been disgraced or something. I've even had family spread rumours that I've "probably killed a patient".
The only people who understand are my friends who are still in medicine and are miserable!

Average salaried GP hourly rate around SW is c£42/hr 10 hrs+ per day still doing admin on off days unpaid.
Average GP Partner hourly rate £45/hr once you take into account all of the extra admin they do, extra patients no one else want, extra meetings on non-working days, having liability and risk of all employees
Average locum GP hourly rate working max 8 hours/day = £100/hr no extra admin, work when they want.
This is why doctors turn to agency/locum work/go to another country as they are (correctly) valued higher and work when it suits them.
Government gave GP surgeries the equivalent of 1.8% net increase to cover pay rises and then forced practices to pay GPs a pay rise of 4.3%.
The money has to come from somewhere - less staff!
It's the same in schools and hospitals. You cannot provide more services with less.

I would not encourage a career in medicine.

I've been at a big 4 firm for 15 years (outside London). I absolutely work my ass off and my basic is just over £100k as a Director (and I have a very prestigious degree ). I need to know his secret 😂

Doctors are paid no more than nurses. The supervise PA's who are paid more than many doctors.

Feels they generally pay them self:
GMC £500

Insurance £500

BMA £500

Courses or exams average £1000 per year

Royal collage fees £400 to £750 a year

Most have £80k + debt now

for the first 8 to 10 years you get moved around all over the uk and may move hospitals a couple of times a year
The stranded working week is 48h, less than that and you are part time.

This is on a shift pattern, so you are doing 48h a week with a combination of nights, days and twilights (often finishing at 2am)

On top of this you have to take exams which are really very difficult and to try and study for them on top of a very difficult rota.

They use the term junior doctor to devalue the position of these doctors, a “junior” is anyone out of medical school that is not a consultant.

Some never become consultants, a “junior” could be the one operating on you, they could be running a cardiac arrest, trauma calls, they will almost always be the one doing emergency procedures in A&E.

And it's not like a consultant is making huge money, they are on £42.50 which goes up to £57.20 after 19 years so that is around 30 years after you are done with med school.

The pension is not bad, but its not like it was, you still pay 14.5% of your pay into the pension and its not final salary like it was before.

It’s really important to dispel the myth that most consultants/ surgeons do private work. We don’t. NHS work is pretty time consuming , cost of private indemnity, secretary etc are significant . You have to spend at least 1 day a week in the private sector to make it financially worthwhile which is too much for most people who have families.

I was a ‘junior doctor’ until aged 42 on £50K per year after 24 years of university and training.

Now a consultant
Every month , I pay £42 to the GMC who seek to punish / regulate doctors, £40 to the BMA for union membership, £47 for specialty college membership and £40 for subspecialty group association membership as well as a huge indemnity annual fee.

I paid 2.5K in the last 2 years of training to sit exams as well as several hundred pounds to the GMC to be placed on the specialty register.

The anxiety that being a doctor provokes is huge in this litigation prone environment.

I have spent 2 years away from my family due to rotations . I drove 3 hours on a weekly commute while pregnant ( up to 36 weeks) and then left my 5 and 9 year olds for up to 10 days at a time ( 5 days most weeks) for 12 months.

Being a doctor is not financially rewarding and at this time trying to paper over the craps while avoiding litigation - medicine is a really shit job.

Can anyone explain why a Physicians Associate is paid around £40k after qualifying and a junior doctor £29k? This is bearing in mind the limitations in the role of a PA. My DD is a junior doctor and it totally pisses her off. And yes, in theory the trajectory in terms of pay scale is better for doctors, albeit it’s a joke, but a newly qualified doctor has much more responsibility and they should get paid for the job they actually do in F1 /2.

I read this and thought, "Really? Is that true?" But then I looked it up on Google and it turns out to be true. My sister-in-law, she's a consultant in the nursing field and she's making more cash than a doctor consultant and said her job is straight forward. I'm not sure how that works for doctors, maybe it takes longer or something. I don't know much about Physicians Associates, I've only ever heard of Physician Assistants previously and it seems like they can't do everything a doctor can do. So, I'm curious what extra stuff they're doing that a doc can't.

This is unfortunately very very very rare. I personally don’t know many consultants earning 6 figures unless they have multiple roles and basically do nothing but work. Some people are happy with that lifestyle but most are not and it’s not feasible to expect people to give up everything to support the NHS.

I am surprised that students are even going into Law.
I am a lawyer and have advised my own dc to avoid the profession.

My cousin works as a locum GP. He works three days a week and does not intend to seek work as a salaried GP

I'm a second year doctor in the NHS - I'm glad the public have started understanding how awful this profession (both from physical, mental and financial perspective).
I see some people say: Well, you chose the job - When I chose to go into the career, that was 8 years ago when I was proud of the NHS but, It has been ruined and I cannot see any way it will improve.
So here I am counting the days until I hand in my early resignation and leave to start the job I have accepted in Australia. And I am not the only one.
The NHS is going to get worse and the government will be the sole reason for driving healthcare professionals out of the country/career.

I pay my waitresses more. And they're mainly shit 😂

I am also a junior doctor, I qualified in 2020. I work part time at 33.5h/week on average, which is only 4h less than most people would consider full time, and earn around £24,000. This is less than the nurses and midwives I work alongside, and approximately the same as the midwife/nursing assistants (between 21,000 and 26,000 depending on role and experience). They all work very hard too, but have to shoulder considerably less responsibility and without the additional expenses, fear of making dangerous mistakes, and annoyances mentioned above about constantly moving and studying for exams.
I am due to start working in a different department in 12 weeks and I have no idea of my hours, rota or requirements and have to try to arrange childcare to cover these unknown working hours. I am about to apply to cut my hours (which means even less pay) to give me a better chance of being able to find a childcare solution.
It's a very sad and frustrating state of affairs, and to be honest I try not to think about the future much as it's too depressing. I love caring for my patients, it is an absolute privilege to be there for them when they most need help, but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the sacrifices required just aren't worth it.

@Lampzade

Sensible of your cousin - although there really should be a cap on hourly rate. More than double the pay of someone who is doing the job day in day is exorbitant.
Also, the sad thing is, the partners and salaried clinicians who do all the extra work are the ones burning out. Without them, GP services would be 8.30am-5pm as these are the only hours locums will work and they will not see any more patients. Hospital services would have more gaps - my nurse friends never finish their shifts on time and are unpaid for the extra,
We are already seeing a shift in attitudes of newly qualified GPs - many refuse to do extra and without the extra, services will reduce.
The government is taking advantage of all doctors/nurses/paramedics etc who went into the profession with care and compassion and is breaking them.
If they break all doctors/nurses they can look like the saviours when they privatise the NHS properly.
I support all the strikes and want GPs out there striking, too.

If the hourly rate was lower, people wouldn't pick up the locum shifts. It's heavily taxed so you only end up keeping roughly half of it. Shifts are going unfilled even when rates are escalated because we are exhausted and can't contemplate working more than we already are.
Also, for the long term locums there is zero job security, holiday, sick pay etc so the rate does need to be significantly higher to compensate for this.

Isn't there some mad rule as well that if you work overtime it's paid at half the normal rate?!

That may have changed because it's a long time since I first read it.

I can't understand why there's always such a fuss about nurses pay when you compare to Junior Dr it's decent and only a 3 year degree.

@iabvvu I'm not suggesting paying same as salaried, totally agree with your points - but capping at £75/hr would help to sustain the system - I'm paying over £400 for a locum to see 12 patients in 3.5hrs.
The maternity reminursement payments only cover 4 GP sessions per week at current locum rates so to cover a GP on maternity is c£100K for 12 months - it comes out of other staffing budgets.
There are more GP vancancies than locums.
Interestingly, at the height of the pandemic a swathe of locums took salaried positions for job security and income and then as the pandemic eased - they quit and went back to locuming. This hit surgeries very hard.