Doctor salary

[Jessica231]

I was shocked to learn today what a junior Doctor is actually paid. No wonder the NHS is in such a state.

£14 per hour for a newly qualified doctor…

£24 per hour for 8+ years of experience….

I pay my cleaner more…..

Embarrassed to say this is something I wasn’t aware of! The pay seems totally incompatible with the time they spend training, skills required and the responsibility involved.

Anyone else shocked?

My husband is a consultant but he doesn't do private work as there isn't a demand for it and also he isn't interested in working more than he already does. At times we have really struggled. We had just bought our first home when he was moved as part of his rotation. We knew this would happen but they wouldn't tell us when. They said it would be 6 months and it was 18 months. It was 3 hours away from our 'permanent' home.For this time we had to run 2 homes, our bought home and our rental. We had a baby and there was no hospital accommodation suitable. At the same time he was paying for exams essential to his career progression. He no longer does on call as he is too old and knackered so his pay reflects this.

This is a big issue at the moment. My husband is a GP and also lectures in general practice at a couple of universities. and mentors sixth formers. He’s noticed that where the brightest students used to go on to study medicine or dentistry, those bright pupils are going into banking, law, IT etc as the money’s better, less student debt, more manageable workload and less life-or-death responsibility.

The medical profession could also always rely on a high number of children of doctors following their parents into the profession. These days, they’re seeing the stress firsthand and looking at other careers.

@AdelaideRo no it's my experience &
I never said the starting salary was 100k...

Also married to a GP. He works extra shifts in the evening and on weekends to cover our outgoings. No foreign holidays or fancy lifestyle either. We have four intelligent children, who we will encourage away from any sort of medical career.

I would agree with a pp that a lot of doctors are bad with money!

Consultants have aspirations above their pay so they want second homes, nice cars, nice house, nice holidays but, in their view, don't get paid enough for that. So rather than cut their cloth...

They are also in extremely secure jobs. And get a good pension.

@LadyRoughDiamond certainly in the top law firms the workload is extreme!

It should be council houses for doctors so at least they don't need to pay rent and live close to hospital.

I know consultants earn less than finance and banking executives but compared to the rest of us they are paid well - claiming £88k (starting salary for a consultant) isn't high is offensive to the rest of us who also had student loans and some of us work with the poorest in society front line!

finance & banking are far less secure & many workers burn out by their 50s.

A friends DC is leaving after two years working for the NHS as a doctor.

The responsibility, so early on is a huge worry. No support, no senior staff to ask for advice. She is being left to make decisions way beyond her knowledge, experience. She is terrified that she will make a decision that will kill someone.

All that aspiration, hard work and training wasted.

I do think the younger/juniors get a rough deal, same in most industries tbh nowadays. Don't blame them going abroad.

The issue is not low pay per se, it's the cost of living in London cf. everywhere else imo.

I have 2 doctors in the family. My DH - brings in >£250k pa from NHS clinical role and private work (although private work is paid to his services company). My niece - wants to move to London but cannot afford to maintain lifestyle on a doctors' salary. The problem is that what the salary gets you is so different throughout the country.

Most professional careers start low and then get much better. Law and accountancy have similar training periods. I knew solicitors who actually paid firms to train them....then they imposed a minimum trainee salary, which was something like £12k in 2000 (and it was almost as derisory then!)

Housing costs & wage stagnation is a real
problem for younger generations

@hopeishere you are parroting stereotypes. Pension tax means the pension scheme is no longer that good.

but it is part of our remuneration package. Yet government not keen to reform the pension tax laws which were never designed to catch public servants) or to release our employers contributions to us.

hence people reducing work to retain their pension without crippling tax charges and not lose the benefit of employers contributions.

if I wanted to earn the national average I would have done an easier degree, not done exams well into my late thirties that I had to pay for, not commuted in excess of 60mins a day for months on end during my thirties, been able to go to all my friends weddings, hen dos and christenings (impossible because as a junior doctor you typically work 1 in 3 weekends with very little flexibility). I see the lives /stresses peers have. Honestly medicine is pretty fucking awful at the moment.

@confusedcentral5 the salary scales are national and not alterable. The point I’m making is that if you know hospital doctors on >100k they are either established consultants, have significant management PAs or work more closely than full time.
GP pay is different - partners run a business and can earn more than 100k but the salaried docs they employ generally don’t.

This is truly horrific

@ariautec

my DD is an F2 and your post is 💯 what she has experienced since qualifying in 2021.

My friends son, has a mediocre degree and is already earning £100k at one of the big accountancy firms.

A lot of the issues mentioned above were always the case in medicine. I qualified 27 years ago, we worked way more hours than they do now, the responsibility was the same from day 1 and we had less senior cover!! We put up with it because we knew it would get better in a few years.
it doesn’t or shouldn’t take 20 years to become a consultant and you can become a GP much quicker.
I agree it’s a tough job and none of my kids want to do it (although one is doing nursing) but I love my job! And I’m not wealthy, DH is not medical and works for love not money

My friend earns £££ through being a consultant but does overtime in too if her basic job to accommodate this. What's jobs do pay great in the U.K. any more though? I've noticed so many jobs that used to be well paid just aren't anymore not just doctors. But I agree I wouldn't want to be a doctor.

On top of her job *

@adviceatthislatestage how many years has your ds been at the firm for? I know many people working for the big4 and they're paid peanuts to start with too and worked hard for their money. This is also changing and a lot of salaries for qualified accountants are going down n it up over the last few decades.

My friends son, has a mediocre degree and is already earning £100k at one of the big accountancy firms.

You don't earn that in the Big4 starting out! @adviceatthislatestage

What's jobs do pay great in the U.K. any more though? I've noticed so many jobs that used to be well paid just aren't anymore not just doctors. But I agree I wouldn't want to be a doctor.

When i left uni more than 20 years ago a good manager/senior salary in many jobs was 70/80k ish, it's the same now!

Agreed. That's upper level of senior manager or director level at a Big4. Your friend (or her son) is having you on if they claim he's on £100k early on in his career.

Then become a consultant!! In my country it’s necessary to choose a field! You don’t just stay working in a hospital as a general ward doctor. You specialise! There are clear pathways. If you want to stay in the ER (A&E in your country) you can but you become a registrar. You don’t just stay working on the wards. What purpose would that serve for patients?

You can’t moan you’re not paid enough and then do absolutely nothing to remedy it! Where’s your AMA? Where’s your lobby group lobbying politicians? You realise you have to create that lobby group yourself, don’t you? You can’t just expect people to worship the ground you walk on and pay you a bunch of money because you went to medical school and can no longer be bothered to continue studying!

Re £100k salary. Friend's DS has been with them for about 6 years and I have no reason to doubt my friend

DD2 is a an F2 doctor and is presently working in the hell known as A&E. The pride I have for her and the dedication she has had to get to this point is immense. An F1 doc starting on £29k is shocking, for the responsibility they have, and I speak as a nurse of 40+ years. I can’t understand why a newly qualified doctor earns only £2k more than newly qualified nurses, who I agree are also very much underpaid. My DD has just filled in her ballot paper to strike and is presently applying to go and work in Oz in August as are many of her contemporaries. I support her and will miss her terribly. It’s very sad that good junior doctors will not be retained in this country in the current circumstances.