Doctor salary

[Jessica231]

I was shocked to learn today what a junior Doctor is actually paid. No wonder the NHS is in such a state.

£14 per hour for a newly qualified doctor…

£24 per hour for 8+ years of experience….

I pay my cleaner more…..

Embarrassed to say this is something I wasn’t aware of! The pay seems totally incompatible with the time they spend training, skills required and the responsibility involved.

Anyone else shocked?

Nt everyone can reach consultant level just on sheer numbers.

@AnnaMagnani not to mention the number of mid career doctors who are leaving with their mental health absolutely fucked.

There needs to be less focus on training more doctors and more on actually keeping the ones we have trained.

I'm trying to create a path out of medicine for myself. I'm a huge loss - I'm a skilled competent sub specialist and have passed the membership exams for the two medical specialties relevant to my current role. It took 12 years to train me. I'm late 40s but the thought of working at my current intensity for another 20 years is overwhelming.

I'm not sure teasing is much better- pay and hours wise.

Additionally, an NHS Consultant Pathologist I shadowed described himself as being "very well paid", so may I politely suggest that remains more of a matter of opinion.

I agree its shocking. Lots of other highly skilled public sector roles are also paid appallingly - this is the culmination of 12 years of below inflation pay rises. Austerity has been shown not to work, so why the fuck is the government persisting with it?

Pay rises for public sector workers will immediately either return to the government in tax or be spent, this fuelling the economy and benefitting us all. The notion that it's unaffordable is a total myth.

It's crazy. My nephew (highly intelligent and high achieving, from a very WC background) asked my advice on getting into med school (nothing like my specialism - I'm just the only relative he has who went to university!). As PPs mentioned he saw it as the pinnacle of professional achievement.

After some research I suggested he look elsewhere. He's now doing a fully funded PhD in biotech with high paying grad employers lining up to employ him at far more than a medic could realistically hope for (and with normal hours and far less stress!).

Firstly, not everyone can become a consultant.

Secondly, I can't think of any other career where you stay at the low paid end of the spectrum for 15-20 years before achieving a salary that is commensurate with your skills and ability. In most of the careers that a very bright person could consider going into, you can expect to be earning very decently indeed after 5-10 years.

Yes it's shocking OP. I think most people would be shocked to hear what most GP's, especially salaried GP's, earn too but instead people just listen to what the media say and think it's loads.

I'm not a GP btw just an accountant for them so see it first hand.

The NHS (and every other industry) wouldn't work if everyone wanted to work at the top level e.g. be a consultant. We need people at all levels who should be paid well for the job they are doing.

@catlovingdoctor I work a lot with dentists but primarily in a hospital setting and we often talk about these issues. I considered dentistry and probably have a bit of career regret whereas one of the oral surgeons I work with most often is the other way around - he wants my job!

When I needed a new GDP they all told me to go private as NHS dentistry is so fucked due to the current contract that you won't get good care from an NHS dentist. So yes NHS dental pay isn't great in the community if you are a solely NHS practice but most practices are now hybrid offering NHS and private options. I am unaware that GDP incomes are disproportionately lower than GP incomes. There is also no requirement for GDPs to offer registration to everyone so there are patients who cannot access NHS dentistry.

Postgraduate dental training to become a GDP is also shorter than that to become a GP - foundation year dental = 1 year leaving you with the ability to practice as a GDP. I know in practice many people may opt to do more training it isn't mandatory.

Whereas GP requires - Foundation year medic = 2 years (same national salary scales as dental) then GPVTS of 3 years which includes passing all the components of the mandatory MRCGP exam. The fees for being a registered trainee & exam are quite expensive and are paid by the doctor. There was a thread on twitter last week which i can't find but these fees were in the region of £3000 pounds. If you have to resit an exam you have to pay the fee again.

Most of the dentists i work with are consultants or dentists in training in a specialist dental hospital on the same salary scale as me and doctors in training.

They either accept the lower salary and altruism element or working solely for the NHS (generalising this tends to be the paediatric or special needs dentists!) or have huge private practices on the side (the oral surgeons) with the lifestyle benefits that go alongside this.

There are other differences - GDC registration is more expensive (I think £770 vs £400) but I think indemnity is lower for dentists than doctors.

All professions all relatively low starting salaries when newly qualified and lacking experience. The pay for doctors rises quite rapidly as they work through the ranks and experienced/older doctors/consultants are very well paid.

My doctor friends in Canada live in nice neighbourhoods, have full-time Nannies to make work/life balance manageable for them, work extremely hard, but are at least well compensated for it. It’s intense but broadly a good life doing meaningful work.

My doctor friends in the UK - same age - live in a flat share and don’t have kids because they can’t afford them. It’s a grind and quite demotivating.

The discrepancy is shocking, considering it’s the same profession. Canada also has public healthcare - we’re more like the UK system than the US system - so I’m very intrigued by the difference in compensation.

You think £24/hr after 8 yrs equates to a salary that rises quickly with experience? For someone who is bright enough to be a doctor?!

@catlovingdoctor with respect to your pathologist example I think it depends a lot on where you live. I have friends in 2 consultant marriages in cheapish areas of the UK who afford a nice house, decent cars and private education for 2 children. This is unaffordable in London or the South East.

I have many many consultant colleagues who cannot buy a property (any property) and who only dream of a prestigious car and private school for their children. This is what is driving the recruitment issues for London.

It is also generational. Even in London my colleagues who are in their mid 50s generally all live in very nice areas, in big houses because they bought before the property market went mad. They two would describe themselves as well paid.

Whereas those of us that missed that time are really struggling. I'm actually lucky I have purchased (obv. still mortgaged) a home that suits my needs.

Remote and rural areas suffer different recruitment challenges - if it's a popular holiday destination housing can often be expensive, and there are often limited opportunities for a trailing spouse to get professional level employment if they don't work in healthcare. This makes it difficult to recruit as quite rightly not all spouses want to give up their career and / or if they do it then makes purchasing a family home difficult.

One of my friends ( partner is a physio) was basically told at his consultant interview that if he accepted the job they would make sure she got a job at the hospital too as they were so desperate for new consultants to join the department.

I think it depends where you are based. In my friendship circle, we all went to private or grammar school, top unis and do a mix of finance, teaching, IT, engineering.

The doctor earns the most by quite a margin (plus the pension scheme). In the NW professional salaries are £50k - £70k, not the heady heights of London.

However, I don’t think you could pay me enough to be a doctor, his life is awful. No planned time off, never knowing his rota, terrible work schedule, exams for 10 years. His main complaint is the rota system and the hours, rather than the pay.

It's dreadful.

My 17yo dd is in the process of applying for medicine at the moment. She is at an interview today as it happens. She told me the other day that she would earn considerably less per hour as a junior doctor than she earns from her tutoring job right now, without any relevant qualifications.

The harsh reality of medicine as a career doesn't seem to have put her off yet. She isn't going into it for the money, it's just what she wants to do. I do worry that she may end up regretting it though... so much hard work and so much pressure for so little. We are very lucky that there are people who still want to do it in spite of it all.

I was very relieved that my daughter recently decided against medical school, despite having done really well in her UCAT. She’s now aiming for a career in an allied health profession. Less money but for fewer hours and a lot less stress. Hopefully.

I had no idea. This is awful!

I was a nurse for 40 years, left due to ill health and worked in a shop for a while…I really enjoyed working in the shop, no nights, no Christmas duties, no responsibility, always got a break, totally stress free, was a different world!

@catlovingdoctor it's not a race to the bottom. If you want to start a thread about how crap dentistry is then do so. Don't dismiss others stories just because you think yours is worse.
(FWIW I totally disagree it is worse, how many sets of nights or 4 monthly rotations did you need to do?)

Anyway...
I left medicine 5 years after qualifying with my mental health shredded and a shit load of debt. I would discourage anyone from applying. I feel I have wasted 10 years of my life and now starting retraining in a completely new path.

I’m not surprised, one of my DC is a Dr and they have voted to strike the pay is shocking. My other DC didn’t go to uni , works in admin and earns the same, no debt and more savings, as has been working for years.

I'm glad you have pointed this out.

I have good friends who have emigrated to Canada and Australia who were hospital consultants in the UK.

Some of them had to find an unpopular specialty and change their career path mid-way to ensure they could become a consultant, otherwise they would have been stuck at junior doctor level.

They were the lucky ones who didn't have to pay tuition fees but were shat on with their working pattern. They would go on holiday and not have jet leg.

I earn roughly the same now (office work) as I did taking 999 calls. Much less stress, and I don't wake up in the night panicking about calls I've taken or need counselling for stuff I've heard

I'm not dismissing anyone else's experiences...but you just did! What an arrogant tone you have.

How many minor surgeries (basically what dental procedures are) did you have to do as a medical student? I'll bet far less than I've had to do... before even graduating!

Rotations within the job are a necessary part of training, playing the martyr as you are is quite childish.

Perhaps leave the practice of medicine to more mature individuals.

I’m shocked you’ve only just found this out!