Vaccine or not?

[vaccineornot]

I’m not sure if it’s possible to have a rational conversation about it but I’ll post!
I’ve had vaccines, missed my last as I was unwell and couldn’t rebook in time

I am doubting myself massively about whether I should have more or not
My doctor and consultant say basically “duh, yes, why wouldn’t you”

Social media seems to be (before anyone tells me not to listen, it’s every single person I see) that it’s a scam, a con, the vaccines don’t do anything, the more I have the higher the risk and the push NOT to have it is so strong that I’m thinking am I wrong to have it?
I just can’t seem to work out if I’m more at risk from Covid (which people are saying is a load of shit anyway) or more at risk from the vaccine (which everyone is saying is dangerous to health)

NC as I don’t want people thinking I’m an idiot for questioning myself

i didn't realis that much i much admire how he didn't bow to pressure to take it

I can't getthat het up about him.
All the people who didn't test wouldn't have known

Unfortunately doctors aren’t allowed to refuse to treat patients like you.

Good, I'm glad they aren't because as an ex-staff nurse I know from personal experience that (unsurprisingly) Drs are just normal people. They are like everybody else with the same variation of opinions, prejudices etc and giving them that sort of power based on a personal opinion would be really bad news for all of us.

Imagine if the NHS was allowed to refuse to care to people who a random medic considered 'had brought it on themselves' FFS🙄

The only person I know who didn’t get the vaccine is dead. From Covid. No co-morbidities. Everyone I know who got the jab, usually at least three times, is healthy. That’s seems pretty definitive reason to get the vaccine in my opinion.
There are always risks with any medical intervention. But the risks associated with developing Covid without the vaccine far far far outweigh them.

And all the people I know who didn't get the injections are fine.
Lots of people I know had nasty side effects from the injections.
For me that's good enough for me not to have it

And careful, you're talking anecdotes there
You'll get told off 😁

This!

I’ve not had one single Covid vaccine and have a heart murmor, diagnosed when I was young. Ended up in A&E with palpitations ecg showed abnormalities, had lots of tests and scans showed heart murmur was caused my a mitral valve prolapse. I’m still waiting for a monitor and consultant 2 months later ! Was monitored though out my pregnancies. I was discharged from A&ae with no medication as consultant was reluctant as etc didn’t pick up rhythms issues yet I can feel it. They didn’t even tell me about the mitral valve and regurgitating. I found out by looking on my NHs app! In fact on my papers it said palpitations caused by anxiety? Question mark too!

I don’t regret not having her vaccine but it may not be the vaccine that causes your heart issues? I’m also peri age and at times feel my symptoms are caused by that.

it may not have been but heart issues are very much a well known side effect

I know, it’s true. Also peri menopausal women causes heart issues as well. I’m glad I didn’t get, and don’t regret my decision. Obviously, for a young adult I’m very suspicious of all the heart issues happening!

when I was in my early 20’s the cardiologist said athletes have my type of heart murmur and they are fine! Nowadays all sorts of issues are happening in young people, and you do have to wonder if it’s the vaccines? It is a side effect after all and I do wonder why so many ignore that it’s an side effect.

my issues are definitely not the vqccine, and it’s not always going to be the vaccine for many others, especially after a certain age

When you're suspicious of things that happen to athletes, do you not wonder at all if it might be covid itself? An actual disease that makes most people a little bit ill at least, to some extent (as opposed to the vaccine that mostly doesn't make people ill, where being made ill is the exception)?

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/what-does-coronavirus-do-to-your-body

I get having to weigh up the risks of myocarditis and so on from the vaccines - they're small but they're there and they're why I'd be more hesitant about my 20 year old ds having extra covid jabs (as opposed to his 52 year old dad). I don't get ignoring the risks that come from covid itself - they're known and definite. At the very least you have to consider both, not just the vaccines, surely?

Oops, sorry, that was meant to be a quote reply to someone else - not you!

But he did know and went out in public anyway. He was deliberately being an irresponsible a*hole.

i agree it looks at first glance to be difficult to seperate the issues as so many had the vaccines but why are there no studies being done comparing rise in eg. myocarditis amonst vaccinated versus unvaccinated?
Wouldn't that give a good idea of where the rise is coming from?

Perhaps someone will or already is, but I'm not sure what we'd gain given that it is already a known infrequent side effect, so it doesn't actually need to be revealed as such.

It would make sense to, for instance, have better ventilation in buildings, if we genuinely want to reduce myocarditis cases, since covid is known to cause it. Given that as a society we seem unwilling to do even that, it's not surprising really there's no pressure to fund extra research to tell us the fine detail of an even smaller, already known, risk of it from some vaccines.

For us, not as bad as media would have you believe

In South Aus it was fine, we were rural so literally everyone ignored it, would laugh at the whole thing, you wouldnt have known Adelaide was in lockdown from our little town, school only had an extra week of holidays and we never had to do online, even my work was chill, manager didnt care about masks or anything, all our measures were 'for show' - the company i was in said no mandates at all unless state gov tells them too
A month after we left SA, the gov told them too

So we then move to Queensland in 2021, i stay with same company but in 2022 they turn around and tell us we all have 2 weeks to get vaxxed, company wide mandate - I said nope, worked up until the cutoff date and after having worked all covid, i was sacked
Spent 2 years on a job seeker holiday, no one wanted to hire someone unvaxxed cos i refused to hide or lie about why i was sacked

Last Christmas retail season i got a new job and it sh!ts all over my old one, we treated so much better, my manager is shocked i was sacked over mandates and they gave me a permanent PT position in Jan this year

We only missed one themepark event in Qld due to vax requirements but then it all just went away
I didnt even get a chance to us ethe fake app that made it look like i was vaxxed lol
Socially nothing changed, we still saw friends, didnt mask in shops (like many), just went about life, DD didnt mask at school, ive never had to isolate or test - even during our interstate move.

For us, it wasnt that bad, bit tight with money at times but nothing we hadnt survived before

Maryleport of course it may not have been the vaccine. But my issue wasn’t diagnosed as a child. It came on after having the vaccines. And was exacerbated with each one.
Risk v benefit? For me? I’m steering clear.

we would gain knowing whether injected people are dying at a greater rate than injected.
I fail to see how that could not be great knowledge to have,
Politically, of course, those studies would probably never be funded

But it's already known that at a population level vaccinated people are dying at a lower rate than unvaccinated people from covid itself. It's already known that within that group, as for any vaccine, there will be a tiny subset who get a bad side effect and with hindsight would have been better not taking it. Again, as for any vaccine. Yes in an ideal world we'd be able to predict what makes that side effect take place for some people and not others, so research would be good, I'm not disagreeing there, but it's not likely to show that the vaccine is the more dangerous option (out of vaccine and covid) at a population level, or that would be obvious already - population-wide deaths would have gone up after vaccination, and we already know they went down.

It would also be good to predict the people who get the worst long term damage from covid itself. We already know that statistically it increases heart attacks and strokes, that having had a positive covid test is correlated with getting more other bacterial, fungal etc. infections for at least a year afterwards, that it has severe cognitive effects on some people - research into who gets those effects the worst would be good, because that's a massive medical intervention too - "infect everyone with covid over and over again and see what happens". Like with vaccine side effects, knowing who's most at risk of the worst effects would be very useful.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/covid-19-may-put-patients-risk-other-infections-least-1-year

Edited to add link.

There was also a lot of data produced by each hospital during the pandemic of the number of patients vaccinated v non vaccinated on a percentage basis. Higher figures were from the non vaccinated.

@creditadjustment

but it's not likely to show that the vaccine is the more dangerous option (out of vaccine and covid) at a population level, or that would be obvious already - population-wide deaths would have gone up after vaccination, and we already know they went down.

excess deaths have increased

There has been research on excess deaths. The analysis showed that mortality rates among middle-aged adults in the UK have actually been rising steadily since 2012 - eight years before the pandemic started. This trend may explain why excess deaths since the pandemic have not dropped as expected.

I’ve ended up cancelling for now, not happy to have it

That’s such a misguided decision, OP. You should listen to your doctors, not to the conspiracy theorists on MN. I had mine this morning and since I like not being dead or in hospital, I am 100% certain it was the right choice.

Remember, every risk the vaccine has is also a risk of having Covid, and higher with having Covid. The antivaxxers lie to you.