COVID vaccine? Does it do anything?

[Greybottle]

I jumped at getting the COVID vaccines when they came out and I got all the vaccines that I was eligible for to date except for this year.

I got COVID in the summer time and I wasn't able to get the vaccine this winter. My GP recommended a 4 month wait.

It's just I got COVID twice. Once in 2022 and I had that bad too. I wasn't hospitalised but still I was ill with fever, body aches, headaches and coughs for over a week. I was rushed back to work prepaturely when I still wasn't 100% better.

I got COVID this summer too. I was floored with it.

A lot of people were floored with it this summer. Even though we got the COVID vaccines.

It's just I got a reminder text to book the vaccine today and I just don't know.

I am not anti vaccine but what is the point of the vaccine when youre still going to get exposed and become ill to this anyways?

I got flu in 2004 or 2005 and I was getting flu vaccine because of my work from about 2008 and I never had flue since 04/05. The flu vaccine works. But I am questioning the COVID vaccine? What is the point of going out of my way to travel to an establishment to get jabbed and sore for a few days and if I am exposed to COVID, I am likely still going to get it.

is myocarditis considered a "robust response"

genuinely can't tell if you're being serious.
I take it not as there were no bodies piling up?

You really just need to look at the numbers of deaths and hospitalisations pre and post vaccines to see how effective they've been. It's that simple.

You know you're more likely to get myocarditis from Covid than the vaccination?
Information for healthcare professionals on myocarditis and pericarditis following COVID-19 vaccination - GOV.UK
This shows that 5% of Covid patients developed new onset myocarditis and 1.5% pericarditis within a 6 month period following COVID-19 infection.
When you look at how many people got myocarditis following vaccination it's 2 per 100,000.
So I'll keep getting the vaccine to reduce my risk of myocarditis, thanks.

It’s a valiant effort but someone so vehemently clinging to ‘liars, they’re all liars’ isn’t going to be swayed by anything from a widely respected source. It’s just more lies to them.

they’re living in alternative version of reality where they only trust certain sources for reasons only understandable to them and those who share their pov.

Hmm, not sure a group of funeral directors would agree with you.

hmm, not sure the ONS figures would agree with you

Remember all the fake images from Italy of coffins stacked up - that transpired were actually from the 2009 earthquake?

And all the films of people collapsing and dying on the spot in China? Strangely, as they fell, the ‘victims’ instinctively put their arms out to prevent their faces getting hurt. Plus all the very neat corpses lying on their backs with their arms by their sides?

I don’t deny Covid exists and I don’t deny for a few in our society it was a generally scary virus that they were right to take precautions against.

However, the rest of society completely lost the plot in a form of mass sociogenic hysteria. History is littered with cases. When people are gripped by fear of a threat, real or imagined, their rational and higher cognitive capacities shut down, making them easily manipulable by anyone that promises safety from the threat. The public in general seemed to lose all ability to think sensibly and rationally and expected to be spoon fed by the government.

Remember hands, face, space? Stay home protect the NGS, save lives? Nobody is safe until everyone is safe?

Repetition is also a well-known and prevalent propaganda technique used to solidify falsehoods and perpetuate fear in the public consciousness. By repeating specific phrases and warnings, and displaying particular symbols and images over and over through various mediums, those in power are able to paralyse entire populations with a fear psychosis.

But in the end, it all transpired and admitted by Matt Hancock that it was all over egged to ensure compliance. Never forget, all the restrictions brought in, weren’t to save you, be and aunty Flo, it was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed because any government knows that had that happened on their watch, they would have made themselves forevermore unelectable. It was more about politics than a deadly virus.

Each hospital kept records of daily admissions, ICU cases and deaths. The information was frequently mentioned on news bulletins. It was the reason many wards were converted into Covid wards and temporary ICU.

Due to high numbers of admissions in some areas, patients were being transported to other hospitals with any capacity.

@Notmoog like these?

ignoring the reasons given on death certificates, there were still significant rises compared to the five year average.

and why do you think that was?
Have a little think about how the NHS operated during covid.
Although that's a ;little guess as your graph has no year on it.

They'd never fiddle the numbers, would they. Because they're so honest and not remotely corrupt.

no, that would never happen.
That would be as crazy as doing something like changing the definition of a vaccine to include substances that don't work as a vaccine!

It was more about politics than a deadly virus

and yet no one country (expect maybe Sweden?) managed their way through the pandemic particularly successfully from a political pov. Brazil is a case in point for doing what many advocate for and they didn’t really pull it off.

It’s almost certainly about cultural behaviour and the management of huge numbers of people for the benefit of the largest number of them. That’s not unusual though and has been the case of eons. For any society to work it has to take people in the same direction and manipulation, in various forms, will happen.

Oh god are people really still arguing about this ..?

people also seem to forget that a novel disease will quickly kill the vulnerable, and leave the rest with a degree of immunity.
That's why pandemics tend to last 2 years or so.
Deaths from covid would always plummet whether people were injected or not

@Notmoog

It’s from your preferred source, the ONS. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid192020incharts/2020-12-18

while I’m having your suggested ‘little think’ why don’t you have a ‘little think’ about the circumstances that led the NHS to function in such a way.

It depends on your definition of severity
There is getting it and feeling really rough for a few days
And getting it and ending up in hospital on a ventilator
I assume its doing something as we don't seem to have 1000,s of people dying every day of covid

well the NHS operated the way it did because all ailments except covid were deemed not worthy of the same treatment so many more people died of cancer etc, as treatment was stopped

This is from the U.K. government Guidance for doctors completing medical certificates of cause of death in England and Wales in 2020.

“Medical practitioners are required to certify causes of death “to the best of their knowledge and belief”. Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID- 19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement”

Bear in mind, end of life symptoms - particularly something like pneumonia which is often the cause of death in most terminal illnesses - are likely to be very similar to those of Covid, so a doctor didn’t even need to to have a positive test to make a judgement that it was the major cause.

My MIL died early on in the pandemic and the doctor certifying her death told us ‘it might have been Covid, we’re not sure’ when she was very poorly anyway and would likely have died within a couple of months regardless of the pandemic. It was just easier for him to record it as such.

There are some people who are so far down the anti-vax rabbit hole, that it's almost pointless to present any kind of evidence and argument really. They don't change their minds on that basis. Not until something sadly happens to them or family members do they change their mind, it's very sad.

when this was first pointed out to people there was a lot of shouting down that it was IMPOSSIBLE for a doctor to just decide it's covid for DC purposes.
Funny how these conspiracy theories seem to come out as the truth

100%!

As I mentioned up thread, we’d had several years of low flu incidences and therefore there was a lot of dry tinder when covid initially arrived.

On average, there is a major flu pandemic every 40-50 years so we were almost ‘overdue’ for a worldwide contagion by a novel virus.

did anyone ever find out where flu was hiding in 2020?

It’s not a case of being anti vax though. I don’t get the impression anyone here is denying Covid and its seriousness to a minority. It’s the disproportionate panic and hysteria when, even as Chris Whitty stated right at the beginning, for the vast majority covid will be nothing more than a minor illness. I still think it was madness the way we sacrificed out economy, our children’s education and the mental health of millions when we should have been focussing on protecting the most vulnerable.

The Great Barrington Declaration, composed signed by many very eminent scientists, was pushing for this approach from the very start, but were shouted down and attempted to be discredited by those who didn’t agree with it. It has since been vindicated and recognised as a model for future pandemics.