The WhatsApp message leak

[Mycatsgoldtooth]

So, we’ve had the FBI saying it was a lab leak, the leaked messages showing many of the restrictions were for show, stats on the reality of masks being mostly useless unless N95s. Where are all the people that were so upset about anyone saying anything against the government now.

It’s almost as if no one care where the virus came from and how the government reacted. If I’d spent years being terrified and washing my shopping I’d be really pissed off.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/01/untruth-untruth-peddled-justify-great-lockdown-disaster/

The entire thread was full of fake claims. It was really really harmful.

Totally agree with you about mistressofthedarkside which makes it even more frustrating!

I would like to see all the messages, too. I don't trust the government particularly and think they lied about lots of things, the corruption and grift is appalling and they have wasted so much of our money. But, I haven't seen anything in those whatsapp messages that makes me think the whole thing was a con and we could somehow have had even partially functioning healthcare or education systems without restrictions in the early days. The government might not have managed that particularly competently, with some overshoots and some undershoots, but the basic need to just slow down how fast the disease spread was still there.

One thing that I think gets forgotten is that we weren't protecting the healthcare system so much from the elderly people who were most likely to die from covid (many of whom never got near a hospital), as we were protecting it from the 'might not die' middle aged (and some young) people. The more we let covid spread, the more unmanageable that requirement for in-patient medical care would have become, before vaccines. It might be easy to feel relaxed about people over 82 dying of covid, but it's surely a bit less easy to feel relaxed about someone of 53 dying avoidably of covid (or appendicitis, or a heart attack, or after an accident) due to hospitals having no more beds or staff to treat them. I haven't seen anything in these WhatsApp messages that makes me think that was somehow never really an issue after all.

Totally agree @frothytoffee

If anything the messages show the opposite - like the exchange where they're discussing how the eat out to help out scheme was causing a massive surge in cases which they were trying to keep out the news.

@frothytoffee not testing people going back into care homes against the advice of Patric Vallance is ok by you then?
Social service stopping visiting children in risky homes, estimated to have led to 129 children dying over the two years ok with you?

I was in hospital during covid once with my child and then for me. They were empty. Stoping paediatric care made no sense, pead wards were never going to be overrun with covid cases, that was known pretty early on. We saw after covid how scarlet fever and rsv put more pressure on paediatric services.

We were the only country that stopped cancer care. We made a choice that we would let young people die to save those on their 80’s. We did not know if lock downs would save lives, we did know they would cost lives, in the immediate and downs the line. Hancock and Johnson decided a cost benefit analysis of this should not be done.

It’s quite stunning to see people still defending this shit and talking about fake claims and misinformation.

As someone who was close to heart failure and requiring three blood transfusions and four days in hospital after the first AZ vaccine I expect to hear much more about vax injuries in the next few days.

Massive surge in deaths from eat out…. The ONS data would suggest otherwise

Honestly, if the bit about scaring the pants of people and deploy (good choice of words there ) which you would not need to do in a real pandemic as it would be obvious than at this point it's calls denial. Oh and don't worry I think you'll see more messages.

bronze "If anything the messages show the opposite - like the exchange where they're discussing how the eat out to help out scheme was causing a massive surge in cases which they were trying to keep out the news."

summer data doesn't back that up though. As I say, NHS data is excellent - great work drilling down to postcodes etc - but I don't have the mental energy to re-find the data I posted here at the time.

there were lots of good contributors, I imagine most have left. I got pilloried for talking about hospital acquired Covid. How people could be angry at me for raising such a basic issue, I will never know. At the time, a family friend was in hospital and not so much as a plastic partition, very easy to sort, was placed between patients.

two of mum's friends died. But no, according to most posters, I was a Covid denier because of being against the lockdown. It was like an infection of mass hysteria.

Helps the narrative? again strange choice of words.

"It’s quite stunning to see people still defending this shit and talking about fake claims and misinformation."

It's quite amazing. People claim to hate the Tories, think they're untrustworthy and a bunch of self serving arseholes yet still followed the rules unquestionably.
What's interesting to me is that those who are right of centre and maybe even Tories themselves, tended not to believe them. That was my experience.

Followed the rules unquestioningly, was what I was meant to say.

@TinaYouFatLard I am so sorry to hear that happened to you. I really hope you are ok?
My mil is vax injured. She collapsed with each jab and was told it was anxiety. After her fourth left her in hospital for a day she finally saw a cardiologist she was diagnosed with pericarditis and hasn’t been the same since. So much gas lighting. She had covid in March 2020 and recovered fine.

My brother had an allergic reaction to his and was turned away from a&e with his tongue swelling the day he had it as it wasn’t possible it was the vaccine so what did he want from them. Thankfully my mum was pushy as hell and he was seen and given steroids. He then developed chronic urticaria. He looked like the elephant man.

My sil who was 21 had a period so bad she fainted after hers then her periods stopped for months. Again, told can’t be the vaccine as it’s not possible. We now know that menstrual problems are a side effect as are heart issues. As is anaphylaxis. But no, all those people told it wasn’t anything to do with the novel medicine they had just taken. I didn’t take the vaccine after seeing my brother, I’m so happy I haven’t.

I only had covid once while I was in my third trimester and I was ok. This was before the vaccine roll out. I haven’t caught it since despite being with covid positive people numerous times. Last time I tested my antibodies they were still high over a year after having covid. The fact we were told natural immunity didn’t exist is another lie.

@DayKay Despite being called far right and a Nazi on here im actually on the left. BUT i will never ever vote Labour again and this is why.

twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1632310295853973507?s=20

Anyone else remember this?

graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-news/face-covering-public-transport-rules/

@JenniferBooth i feel the same. I just can’t vote for people who’s only response to the pandemic was ‘more and harder’

I can understand that. I'm on the left, but it's bad for all of us that no mainstream left wing politicians or publications were pointing out the gross inequalities inherent in the restrictions system we went for, how bad it would be for many vulnerable people not the inevitability that making a public health problem a criminal law one would have racist and classist consequences. Its one thing if people want to say it was the least worst option, but we haven't even had that. It was late 2021 before mainstream left wing politicians started talking much about the risks of restrictions.

Blueflag22 so do you think the pandemic was a hoax? If so, do you have a theory about why the Tories did this? Especially as a lot of the measures taken ran strongly counter to a lot of basic Tory values.

That's interesting.
I'm pretty much central so I have friends on the left and right and it was just a trend I saw amongst them.
Personally, I feel I can't vote for either labour or conservative.

I feel vindicated, but my anger burned out a long time ago. Those bastards stole so much. I will not forgive. I'm trying not to forget, but it feels like a hazy bad dream, and I don't want to waste more of my emotional energy on the scum who played our lives like chess pieces. It's a hard balance to find.

I'm relieved to see the Whatsapps released and that my scepticism was healthy. No government should be able to strip us of basic rights and freedoms so easily and rapidly for such flimsy reasons. The amount of secondary damage is in the same league as people were trying to avert in Mar/ Apr 2020. The length of restrictions into the summer was just pushing cases into the autumn as low-people were unable to get natural immunity. It was crazy to push it into the seasonal illness season when there were no guarentees on timely vaccines (and then vaccines efficacy/ injury is a whole seperate topic)

It did become predictable that progaganda about outlying Covid deaths were preparing us for further increases of restrictions/ vaccination boosts. I can barely lift an eyebrow seeing that "policy" being confirmed.

What still baffles me is that this was a political pandemic (as in attitudes, not just the literal virus). It wasn't just our government at it. The opposition would have been worse, and many other governments were worse, particularly in 2021.

And the silence of charities and bodies that are supposed to represent vulnerable people who were inevitably going to be suffering from neglect, abuse, poor living conditions and lack of routine healthcare when society shut down, isolated them and removed their support systems.

We nearly had a second Christmas lockdown in 2021 too

And thats another thing that pissed me off The semantics on here and in RL People saying that Christmas 2020 wasnt a lockdown it was tier 4 which was a lockdown in all but name

Yes, I was looking at the legislation every time it was amended - usually issued at 11.59pm the day before it was due to come into force - and it was like being gaslit. But then I realised most people didn't differentiate between the law and what ministers said on TV.

Not a hoax, leaked from a lab, massive wealth transfer and power trip. They used a virus that wasn't as deadly and profited from it. It looks like the had a script , not Just Tory thing as friend's from other countries said same thing. Some country leaders were harsher and more totalitarian than the UK. Many of the leaders at the time are jumping shi now. expect much more will come out, well it wouldn't surprise me. He response to the plandemic was massively exaggerated.

😂😂
I know someone who spent ages washing ALL her shopping. When parcels were delivered to her home, she left them in the porch for a week before she opened them 😂