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The WhatsApp message leak

836 replies

Mycatsgoldtooth · 02/03/2023 10:35

So, we’ve had the FBI saying it was a lab leak, the leaked messages showing many of the restrictions were for show, stats on the reality of masks being mostly useless unless N95s. Where are all the people that were so upset about anyone saying anything against the government now.

It’s almost as if no one care where the virus came from and how the government reacted. If I’d spent years being terrified and washing my shopping I’d be really pissed off.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/01/untruth-untruth-peddled-justify-great-lockdown-disaster/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
Periornot · 03/03/2023 20:37

Hiheyho · 03/03/2023 19:42

Millions died with Covid not from It, there are stats from one for 2020 where it were 4500 or 1800 people who got died from covid on death certificate.

yes, we were lied to, why people think it was ok to deny an early treatment protocols? When in 20th century or 21 a human was told only to seek medical treatment if it could be already to late? What about empty hospitals? What about what was done to care homes? Why those 40 k sacked workers are still haven’t been apologised to?

Are you referring to the foi from ONS? They set out an explanation here blog.ons.gov.uk/2022/01/26/to-say-only-17000-people-have-died-from-covid-19-is-highly-misleading/amp/

minksss · 03/03/2023 20:49

Periornot · 03/03/2023 20:37

Are you referring to the foi from ONS? They set out an explanation here blog.ons.gov.uk/2022/01/26/to-say-only-17000-people-have-died-from-covid-19-is-highly-misleading/amp/

There were so many threads of this at the time, with many of the same users making the same old claims.

It's baffling that people close their eyes to the evidence in front of them.

Crikeyalmighty · 03/03/2023 23:21

I personally always felt the swedes were the people talking sense about managing it. I did the vaccinations and masks etc- but I still think the swedes were right- we were living in Copenhagen during covid and I felt it was handled far better than uk

Mycatsgoldtooth · 04/03/2023 11:54

The fact that anyone can read those messages and think they were coming from a place of care for the people and scientific rigour rather then self serving power grabs, vanity and panic is beyond. Me. Actually laughing about the restrictions while breaking them themselves. Disgusting behaviour and no care shown for the lives they will have impacted negatively at all. Just catching up on the stuff around the time of the affair. Yes people still defend them.

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Mycatsgoldtooth · 04/03/2023 12:19

Case in point messages like this. No one travelling when it was illegal was doing it for a holiday, it was usually for serious reasons.

The WhatsApp message leak
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BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 04/03/2023 12:35

The optics of that one are particularly bad.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 04/03/2023 12:36

Indeed.

What sticks out for me in the latest dump is just how grubby and low brow it all is. Disagreement in times of crisis is hardly remarkable (read the many accounts of WW2 in political diaries for example). Hancock's messages make this place look like an Algonquin round table discussion...

The sheer lack of gravitas from those involved in this shit show is astonishing. We knew the political class were utterly craven and self serving, but the civil service is supposed to be above that. Could you see previous Cabinet Secretaries behaving like Simon Case?

I am surprised to see my worst fears confirmed about what was actually going on. Who in their right mind would listen to the establishment ever again on matters of importance?

They serve their own interests. But we should not be downhearted about this. It simply reinforces the need for change and encourages us to make our own minds up about the pressing issues of the day.

henlee · 04/03/2023 13:17

The fact that anyone can read those messages and think they were coming from a place of care for the people and scientific rigour rather then self serving power grabs, vanity and panic is beyond. Me.

Yes people still defend them.

This is a prime example of why I really struggle with threads like this @Mycatsgoldtooth . Literally no one on the thread has said this.

As I pointed out previously (but got no responses), I haven't seen anything in the messages that suggests that scientific or medical advisors secretly knew COVID suppression measures/vaccines weren't necessary and it was all a big con.

I still think the government are completely incompetent and corrupt - and posted about it at the time - and more and more evidence of this is revealed in the Whatsapp messages.

But always, everything is being conflated together.

Mycatsgoldtooth · 04/03/2023 13:41

@henlee peoole in this thread have said “oh it’s the right wing” “I see nothing they concerns me’ “oh we all knew that” people have argued about the lab leak and no one has addressed some of the most egregious things shared in the messages. The care home stuff makes me want to cry. I am furious. But it seems most people are happy to move on and just wait for the next massive assault on their liberty and well-being no questions asked.

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Mycatsgoldtooth · 04/03/2023 13:42

@henlee I don’t think it’s a big con, but I do think that it was a panic where people made money, grabbed power and enjoyed that power and were utterly self serving chasing their reputations and lied to the public about the need for some of the measures. Many of the measures actually.

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WestwardHo1 · 04/03/2023 17:45

AlecTrevelyan006 · 04/03/2023 12:36

Indeed.

What sticks out for me in the latest dump is just how grubby and low brow it all is. Disagreement in times of crisis is hardly remarkable (read the many accounts of WW2 in political diaries for example). Hancock's messages make this place look like an Algonquin round table discussion...

The sheer lack of gravitas from those involved in this shit show is astonishing. We knew the political class were utterly craven and self serving, but the civil service is supposed to be above that. Could you see previous Cabinet Secretaries behaving like Simon Case?

I am surprised to see my worst fears confirmed about what was actually going on. Who in their right mind would listen to the establishment ever again on matters of importance?

They serve their own interests. But we should not be downhearted about this. It simply reinforces the need for change and encourages us to make our own minds up about the pressing issues of the day.

You make such a good point in your third paragraph. The government has lost all trust. They have wantonly destroyed it. It doesn't matter what brand of government it is does it?

What happens when the shit really does hit the fan and they need us to pull together and listen to messaging which really does mean the difference between life and death?

WestwardHo1 · 04/03/2023 17:46

Sorry - fourth paragraph!

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 04/03/2023 18:00

WestwardHo1 · 04/03/2023 17:45

You make such a good point in your third paragraph. The government has lost all trust. They have wantonly destroyed it. It doesn't matter what brand of government it is does it?

What happens when the shit really does hit the fan and they need us to pull together and listen to messaging which really does mean the difference between life and death?

This worries me too. I think a combination of deliberate exaggeration of the risk to frighten the public and then the lies and gaslighting is going to take a very long time to come back from, if at all. And when you think, public trust in government at the start of the pandemic was quite high according to polling.

Crikeyalmighty · 04/03/2023 18:03

What a bunch of complete arses they are - and Simon case is a disgrace too

EmmaEmerald · 05/03/2023 01:52

Even my jaw is on the floor at this
I mean, I know they thunk it, but the arrogance of writing it down is something else.

twitter.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1632127772909883392

RealityCheck38 · 05/03/2023 04:17

It was quite obvious to anyone with half a functioning braincell, that a virus with an average age of death above natural life expectancy where you needed a test to even know you had it didn't warrant the insane hysteria we have seen. There were threads 18 months ago of people quarantining footballs in gardens, washing grapes, putting letters into " quarantine" and these were accepted by the majority on here not the minority. Anyone saying they didn't support draconian legislation was closed down as a " daily fail, trump supporter and an anti vaxxer".

Why would anyone be terrified of a virus where the vast majority of deaths " of covid " were "with it" when government ministers laughed about instilling fear into the likes of Minky Green and co. These turnips would drink a gallon of their own urine if the government told them to and anyone questioning it would be labelled a conspiracy theorist. The government are corrupt liars, but they aren't stupid. The stupid people are those we have seen on threads banging on about anti vaxxers and supporting children wearing muzzles in schools - disgusting characters and a rela insight into the stupidity of the human race. The only holy grail left for the covid hysteric characters left to hold onto now is the vaccine, and that will be next to fall. The censorship of anyone questioning the lunatic covidian fringe actually banning people and removing posts from sane people questioning why people are quarantining letters has been disgusting to behold.. no doubt this post will go the same way.

MeetPi · 05/03/2023 06:08

RealityCheck38 · 05/03/2023 04:17

It was quite obvious to anyone with half a functioning braincell, that a virus with an average age of death above natural life expectancy where you needed a test to even know you had it didn't warrant the insane hysteria we have seen. There were threads 18 months ago of people quarantining footballs in gardens, washing grapes, putting letters into " quarantine" and these were accepted by the majority on here not the minority. Anyone saying they didn't support draconian legislation was closed down as a " daily fail, trump supporter and an anti vaxxer".

Why would anyone be terrified of a virus where the vast majority of deaths " of covid " were "with it" when government ministers laughed about instilling fear into the likes of Minky Green and co. These turnips would drink a gallon of their own urine if the government told them to and anyone questioning it would be labelled a conspiracy theorist. The government are corrupt liars, but they aren't stupid. The stupid people are those we have seen on threads banging on about anti vaxxers and supporting children wearing muzzles in schools - disgusting characters and a rela insight into the stupidity of the human race. The only holy grail left for the covid hysteric characters left to hold onto now is the vaccine, and that will be next to fall. The censorship of anyone questioning the lunatic covidian fringe actually banning people and removing posts from sane people questioning why people are quarantining letters has been disgusting to behold.. no doubt this post will go the same way.

TBH, you don't sound completely on the sane side of things.

Mycatsgoldtooth · 05/03/2023 08:58

@RealityCheck38 I really don’t hold out any hope that people will accept that they have been lied to. They will
be calling people anti vax conspiracy theorists for stating the obvious for years to come. I think a lot of people have seen how easy they were to manipulate into doing senseless and cruel things and are struggling with the cognitive dissonance of that.
You sound perfectly sane to me. But some one that got a vaccine against an illness they just recovered from, and then still panicked about catching the illness, was seen as completely rational this time last year and it always looked irrational to me.

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FrostyFifi · 05/03/2023 09:13

TBH, you don't sound completely on the sane side of things

On the contrary, that post was spot on.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 05/03/2023 09:18

The response of the public can't be separated from the deliberate government policy of trying to make people more afraid. While the Tories didn't want to lock down, once they'd decided it was happening, people correctly appraising themselves as low risk was identified as a problem that needed to be solved.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/882722/25-options-for-increasing-adherence-to-social-distancing-measures-22032020.pdf

People with existing anxiety, OCD etc were thrown under the bus.

TobeLeRone · 05/03/2023 09:18

RealityCheck38 · 05/03/2023 04:17

It was quite obvious to anyone with half a functioning braincell, that a virus with an average age of death above natural life expectancy where you needed a test to even know you had it didn't warrant the insane hysteria we have seen. There were threads 18 months ago of people quarantining footballs in gardens, washing grapes, putting letters into " quarantine" and these were accepted by the majority on here not the minority. Anyone saying they didn't support draconian legislation was closed down as a " daily fail, trump supporter and an anti vaxxer".

Why would anyone be terrified of a virus where the vast majority of deaths " of covid " were "with it" when government ministers laughed about instilling fear into the likes of Minky Green and co. These turnips would drink a gallon of their own urine if the government told them to and anyone questioning it would be labelled a conspiracy theorist. The government are corrupt liars, but they aren't stupid. The stupid people are those we have seen on threads banging on about anti vaxxers and supporting children wearing muzzles in schools - disgusting characters and a rela insight into the stupidity of the human race. The only holy grail left for the covid hysteric characters left to hold onto now is the vaccine, and that will be next to fall. The censorship of anyone questioning the lunatic covidian fringe actually banning people and removing posts from sane people questioning why people are quarantining letters has been disgusting to behold.. no doubt this post will go the same way.

We were fed what now looks like a pack of lies.

Videos from China and then Italy showed terrifying scenes, hospitals overrun and large numbers dying - obviously people were going to be scared. In those early days the death rate looked far worse than the low rate it settled at - I don’t know if those figures were embellished, but our government, after apparently fannying about and talking in slogans and not doing anything decisive, finally decided on lockdown, which I remember many feeling was a relief, they were finally doing something. Reports from Asian countries looked like their strict pandemic policies were working, so it made sense that something similar here would be helpful.

I’m not sure at what point it became clear that covid wasn’t the danger that we were told it was, and to be fair to non-scientists (ie most of us), and questioning and googling we might do led to a variety of inconsistencies - take masks - there were plenty of research papers to be found proving that wearing masks was useful - research carried out in 2020 using cages of hamsters apparently showed masks to be effective in the spread of covid, whilst other papers proved beyond doubt that masks didn’t work for flu. Now a Cochrane review points out masks are useless, with a caveat that with low compliancy the results aren’t definitive, but still enough to say that there’s no point wearing masks any more (yet we’re still made to in hospitals and drs surgeries).

The Great Barrington Declaration was seen as a breath of fresh air by some, but at the same time, with the available information at the time, it had glaring gaps, ignoring the reported numbers of patients needing hospital care and even ICU care - at that time there was so much conflicting information that without the benefit of hindsight it would have been irresponsible to put it into action.

Unfortunately at the time the died from/died with was confusing and difficult to follow, and dissenting voices from anti covid people were very often easily ignored because other stuff claimed was plain wrong (masks causing lack of oxygen, masks causing a rise in bacterial lung infections), and making claims that there was no such thing as covid, when at times excess deaths were alarmingly high, even if the main deaths were amongst the elderly.

People were scared, and when faced with a scenario that we’ve been warned about for years were ready to trust our government to keep us safe. It took time for the information to be gathered about covid, and instead of being honest, the government used it against us, all of us. In the meantime, those speaking out against it all were discredited for their views, posts here were deleted left right and centre.
In light of Matt Hancock’s latest message about scaring the pants off us with another variant, well, it worked. We largely complied with every lockdown. That doesn’t make people stupid though.
If nothing else all of this should teach us that as humans we are all different, but sadly the main thing it’s taught many of us is that we cannot trust our government, or other parties who went along with the hysteria. They were the people with access to objective information.

Dr John Campbell, a retired nurse on YouTube put in a great amount of effort to keep people up to date with information, translating documents from scientific language to plain English so viewers could understand what was going on. Many MNers recommended watching him as a no nonsense, balanced source of info. Until he started spotting inconsistencies and questioning things, at which point he was promptly discredited, anyone quoting him or sharing videos were told “he’s not even a dr” “he’s sold out”, and any links were deleted. If I’m to understand that now I can say he was right in some aspects now certain details have come to light, I’m going to suspect that his changed opinion on vaccines (along with many other credible drs) may have a grain of truth in them. I am fully vaccinated to this point, I say I made the choice freely, but in truth I probably didn’t, the fear and manipulation likely swayed it, but I won’t have any more, because my trust in anyone over this whole mess is gone.

Russell Brand (yes I know he’s a dick) made a video recently showing how much money Bill Gates has made through covid. Has the whole thing been manipulated to make wealthy people wealthier? I’d like to say no, but I don’t believe that any more. Politicians are out for themselves, they don’t give a shit about ordinary people.

Humans are all different, we all react differently to things, I’m sure if we our covid “behaviour” we’re plotted on a graph it would end up a bell curve, with one extreme still wearing masks and washing their shopping, and the other extreme calling for compliant hospital drs to face Nurembergesque trial. If nothing else it’s an interesting observation of humans. Whilst the pro-covid side (for want of a better way to describe it) went along with the fear and shut down other opinions using the sources they trusted, the anti-covid side were doing the same thing with their trusted sources - as it turns out both sides’ sources had elements of truth and lies. Maybe from here, as a population who now knows our government is a pit of despair, maybe we should be trying to be more open minded to each other, to hearing other views, to not fall into this damaging polarisation that happens with pretty much every issue now.

And maybe we should all be marching in the streets to get rid of this shitshow of a government, and demand changes be made to politics, which appears to be broken.

Vintagevixen · 05/03/2023 09:43

Just coming on to say - I knew! I was on many threads being called a granny killer in 2020.

Constantly being told I was an irresponsible parent for refusing DD to wear a mask to school. So many arguments about the piss poor evidence base for masking.

Yet now - silence from those same posters.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 05/03/2023 09:48

Anyone saying they didn't support draconian legislation was closed down as a " daily fail, trump supporter and an anti vaxxer".

This just isn't true. There were a whole bunch of people (on here and irl) who vocally didn't support restrictions. On here, there was a group called "anti-dementors", the threads are still available if you advance search. Journalists (such as Oakshott) were writing anti-lockdown pieces in national newspapers. Dissenting opinion wasn't banned or shut down. It was disagreed with. Dangerous misinformation (eg Trump's nonsense about injecting bleach) was shut down, but there were people questioning whether even that was acceptable.

Most people (ime) were very middle-ground about it. Willing to follow the majority of the rules in order to prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed. Not willing to harm themselves though. I felt that way and still do - there's nothing in any of the messages to counter that opinion.

Blueflag22 · 05/03/2023 10:10

They used the same tactics that sbusers use, coercive control, manipulate, gas lighting and confusing messages, and FEAR. Disgusting.

EmmaEmerald · 05/03/2023 10:40

RealityCheck such a good post.

I'm honestly befuddled by the amount of cognitive dissonance people are capable of holding (I mean IRL).