The WhatsApp message leak

[Mycatsgoldtooth]

So, we’ve had the FBI saying it was a lab leak, the leaked messages showing many of the restrictions were for show, stats on the reality of masks being mostly useless unless N95s. Where are all the people that were so upset about anyone saying anything against the government now.

It’s almost as if no one care where the virus came from and how the government reacted. If I’d spent years being terrified and washing my shopping I’d be really pissed off.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/01/untruth-untruth-peddled-justify-great-lockdown-disaster/

”We have examined the impact of vaccine uptake on the pandemic dynamics in the Nordic countries. In these countries, the vaccination campaigns has been notably efficient with a significantly high fraction of the population already vaccinated. Our analyses clearly demonstrate that a successful vaccination strategy is paramount to reduce stress on general health and its healthcare system.”

What is an ‘anti everything stance’?

We know suicides occurred during lock down. The Humber bridge was closed as so many people tried to kill themselves. I know three people who commuted suicide during lock fine. It seems talking about the effects of lock down is weaponising, but talking about the effects of the virus us discussion. Funny eh.

And there is a big difference between masks in hospitals and care homes and masks to pop into the shop or sit all day in a lesson at school or give birth! Face it, Sweden did the pandemic well. I was just answering a poster who says there had been a surge in child deaths, which was not correct.

What has vaccine uptake in the Nordic countries got to do with lock down policy? If people want to get vaccinated good for them, just don’t make it a condition of participation in life and employment especially if that vaccine isn’t a sterilising vaccine and can have massive side effects.

@hamstersarse anti everything seems to mean questioning anything about covid.

@MinkyGreen Sweden’s suicide rates during the pandemic:

”results from the analyses showed that even though Sweden's suicide rates in 2020 were slightly lower than in previous years, the results were within the statistical margin of error. Furthermore, no significant deviations in suicide rates were observed within a specific gender or age group”

So no - suicides did not go up during the pandemic. Or am I weaponising google? Are you going to report another one of my factual comments?

@MinkyGreen

The suicide rate in the U.K. was 6.9% higher in 2021 then usual.

“Suicides did not rise during the Covid pandemic “contrary to some speculation at the time”, new figures have shown.

New data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show that in 2021, there were 5,583 suicides registered in England and Wales, which is equivalent to a rate of 10.7 deaths per 100,000 people.”

Although this was statistically significantly higher than the 2020 rate of 10.0 deaths per 100,000 people, it was consistent with the pre-Covid pandemic rates in 2019 and 2018.

@Mycatsgoldtooth

@Mycatsgoldtooth

it was higher than in the initial lockdown when rates dropped. It went back to pre pandemic levels.

@Mycatsgoldtooth

Sweden had vaccine passports.

@Mycatsgoldtooth

There are so many factors.

I could say people were committing suicide due to having long Covid or because they couldn’t access hospital treatment and adequate mental health services due to hospitals being overwhelmed - so therefore we should all have worn masks and followed lockdown rules.

But that would be weaponising suicide to support a pro lockdown stance - which would be wrong, a massive sweeping statement and a pretty short sighted thing to say.

@Mycatsgoldtooth

You were factually wrong to infer that Sweden had a lower suicide rate than the UK.

FFS, suicide rate is not an accurate measure of the mental health of a population.
Instead, count the levels of people admitted to A&E for failed suicide attempts... or self harm.
So when people gloat that suicide rates were down during lockdown... compare them to self harm and suicide attempts.

Actually, I know women - in senior leadership positions - that have done just that. Two in the last three years - upped and left their own families to follow their latest guy. Because you know what? People are just that. People. And the last few years have exposed some almighty cracks in relationships. It's been stressful for everyone. I don't envy anyone in the spotlight. I don't have respect for these women, but I can in some way understand that their reasons may be complex.

I attempted to search for the exchange you mention. It didn't happen, apparently, in the way you term it. Your hyperbole has let you down.

Semantics @GoldenAye semantics

twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1632480265615421442?s=20

You still haven't convinced me. Sorry. Perhaps try wording your posts more carefully?

"If people are too scared then you don't have a lockdown because services stop functioning"

If people are too scared, then it's more that you don't need a lockdown - loads of people stay home anyway (and yes, systems and services break down). Normal life is gone, either way.

What is your understanding of zero covid? In your own words.

@XenoBitch

No one was gloating. @Mycatsgoldtooth brought up the subject and I’d say her post was inaccurate which doesn’t really help to improve a situation.

I very much welcome a debate as to how the government mishandled and what would have worked better to protect us all.

However all I’ve seen in this thread are Daily Telegraph, Great Barrington, Unherd type sentiments. As this thread is debating politics, I’ll add that there is only one political party that have a policy on Covid reflecting the views of many on here. It’s not a party I want to see in power.

My stats were taken from a report about suicide stats taken from Swedish medical journal. Took me a minute to google. You keep saying that they are inaccurate but please tell me where you are getting your stats @MinkyGreen
But it’s all a distraction as my point is lockdown and the fear manufactured has had a massive negative intact on mental health and well being. A lot of the time in people that had very little to actually fear. Something the government have conceded now the rates of mental health appointments can be looked at.

@GoldenAye what’s yours? Are you sitting Chins, New Zealand, Hong Kong or Melbourne. Or is it a special zero covid where we get covid infections down to zero with no negative effects?

@Mycatsgoldtooth

Hmm, took me a minute to Google mine too.

I agree but Long Covid, inability to get support from an overwhelmed hospital would have caused mental health issues too.
PIMS and Labyrinthitis haven’t been great for the children I know in terms of their mental health.
Its so multi faceted and their are so many factors - I just think care needs to be taken when stating suicide as a reason for an anti lockdown stance.

As I understand it, you'd usually expect any rise in suicides because of an event or experience to come later on. Like how suicide rates in Northern Ireland spiralled after the Troubles ended, not during them.

One point on the suicide stats is that they are often recorded as a ‘narrative’ death. This has happened in the 2 suicides I have known about personally.

it is sonething the ONS have expressed concern over.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21372846/

I asked you first. So you can't provide an answer? That figures.