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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

If you didn't get the jab, would you consider having it now?

1000 replies

AreYouVeryAnti · 25/01/2023 23:49

You'd better be quick if you're healthy and under 50...

"The Telegraph understands the Government is also preparing to wind down the open offer of the first two doses over the coming months. The move will mean unvaccinated healthy under-50s will soon not be able to get a Covid jab unless one is recommended by a medical professional."

OP posts:
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11
sunglassesonthetable · 07/03/2023 22:11

As I explained I DIDNT experience ANY coercive tactics re the vax. Why should I have examples?

peppathe3rd · 07/03/2023 22:11

@sunglassesonthetable
*
you sound just like one of my irritated teachers when I was in the 5th form. Did you mean to sound like you are marking my homework?*

no. but i can certainly imagine highly irritated teachers. enough. you have no argument, so just stop. it's wasting people's time and this thread will end at 1000 posts. i don't want to take up anymore with this nonsense.

sunglassesonthetable · 07/03/2023 22:17

no. but i can certainly imagine highly irritated teachers. enough. you have no argument, so just stop. it's wasting people's time and this thread will end at 1000 posts. i don't want to take up anymore with this nonsense.

You 'just stop' .

The arrogance is hilarious! This is a PUBLIC forum and your time is no more valuable than anyone else's. Please stop sounding like you run this thread or control the narrative.

sunglassesonthetable · 07/03/2023 22:18

Not that impressed with your 'argument' either tbh.

statementstate · 07/03/2023 22:46

Sunglasses why do you need to deviate always? You've continually said that me and others with opposing views are the same person, in a bid to prove what?

Earlier you said that it's only I and Peppa who know people who were coerced, and insinuate those are the isolated two cases. Again being dismissive and minimising. Anything aside from what you belief is inconceivable. This isn't my perception, this is what you have shown.

You detract from the matter at hand, it seems like you purposely derail. It is exhausting. If you've not more to add, why continue?

sunglassesonthetable · 07/03/2023 23:05

What I actually said was you were two examples ie where you worked and where peppas friend worked and that
we also had two examples that weren't...SO wouldn't it be great to know the actual figures?

not you were the only people ! Give me strength.

Seems like some of you on here can make the most sweeping of anecdotal statements and unsubstantiated claims but the moment you're asked any questions or any rigour is required it's all " you're minimising and being dismissive ".

Yet there you were in a tirade about others "living in fear! "

Give me break.

peppathe3rd · 07/03/2023 23:48

@sunglassesonthetable

some of you on here can make the most sweeping of anecdotal statements and unsubstantiated claims but the moment you're asked any questions or any rigour is required it's all " you're minimising and being dismissive ".

should we follow the rigour you display when asked to defend your statements like - i could but i won't?

CrunchyCarrot · 08/03/2023 06:38

How about I define what I think 'coercion' wrt the Covid vax? As I posted earlier:

Coercion: "the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats."

Let's also add the definition of 'threat' as well (since I think we can agree on what 'force' is):

Threat: "a statement of an intention to inflict pain, injury, damage, or other hostile action on someone in retribution for something done or not done."

So bearing those definitions in mind, I feel that the word 'coercion' is properly used re e.g. the care worker situation of being sacked if you didn't get both vaccine doses because there would be damage arising in the form of losing one's income.

Re not being able to get into a football match or nightclub, I feel 'coercion' is wrongly used as this would not cause 'pain, injury, damage' to the person concerned.

That's my take on it. Others may differ of course!

MinkyGreen · 08/03/2023 06:56

I think that’s a good way to put it @CrunchyCarrot. I find the care home worker hard because I can see the need to protect the people within that home.

I still wouldn’t say ‘coercion’ because to me it implies some kind of sinister thinking. “Here’s a way to get more people jabbed - let’s force care home staff to get the vaccine.” I think the thought process was more about protecting the vulnerable in an emergency.

MinkyGreen · 08/03/2023 06:57

And I don’t then think ‘coercion’ can be used as a blanket terms to then describe the whole vaccine roll out. That’s inflammatory.

Mummyford · 08/03/2023 07:46

I think in these discussions, it's easy to forget exactly how dire things were at the time of the vaccine rollouts. The medical community worldwide really barely understood Covid, how it was transmitted (I remember Dr John Campbell, when he was reputable, saying it was transmissible through urine), how transmissible it was, how to treat patients. It was a real day-to-day learning experience with the world as guinea pigs. Economies were tanking, people were dying everywhere, medical staff and hospital beds were stretched beyond imagining. There may have been an element of hoarding PPE in the early advice for the public not to mask, but the bigger truth is that it took them a while to understand that it was largely respiratory transmission.

There were other ways to stop the spread--closing borders, hard masking laws, longer lockdowns, but they weren't feasible. At that point in time, the vaccine felt like our only way out. I do think there was early hope that it would offer more of a hard stop in transmission than it did, and that immunity would last longer than it does, but the same was true of the virus itself. There was widespread surprise when it turned out that immunity from infection waned within six months. Vaccination also was, and remains, the best method of stopping new variants from emerging.

My husband had it very early (March 2020), oddly I didn't get it, and although he was never in real danger, it really was quite terrifying. People were extremely ill in that first round with very few resources available for treatment. There weren't even tests available unless you were hospitalised, and even those had a 48 hour turnaround time.

I've taken every vaccine I've been offered and been happy for my children to do that same. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I believe somewhere around 6 billion people worldwide have received it, and, believe me, it's being closely studied and monitored. I'm confident that overall it's very safe. Going forward, the decision to take boosters for me will depend on infection rates and variants.

I do think it's a shame that there is such widespread resistance to masking. Every study shows that a high quality mask, worn properly, is very effective at lowering transmission rates, particularly when combined with ventilation (MPs have had a very nice anti-virus system installed in Westminster). I would have more respect for the anti-vaxxers if they combined it with a pro-masking stance.

sunglassesonthetable · 08/03/2023 08:29

I think in these discussions, it's easy to forget exactly how dire things were at the time of the vaccine rollouts.

Couldn't agree more. Some very short memories.

CrunchyCarrot · 08/03/2023 08:41

Agree with much of that, @MinkyGreen and @Mummyford.

I do think though that the govt handled care homes shamefully near the beginning of the pandemic, we now know about Matt Hancock's ignoring advice to get people tested before entering care homes in April 2020. I can't imagine what he was thinking.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/52674073

Elderly patients were discharged from hospitals back into care homes and spread the virus that way, because they weren't required to be tested. To say nothing of the shortage of PPE!

In July, Panorama gathered data from 39 hospital trusts, which showed three-quarters of people discharged were untested.

That meant that Covid became widespread in care homes. So requiring care workers later on to be vaccinated or lose their jobs did feel (to me) like trying to shut the stable door after the horse had well and truly bolted. I hope if nothing else comes out of this pandemic, that any future pandemic has these routes of transmission well and truly closed from the outset.

peppathe3rd · 08/03/2023 08:46

i really hope nurse key is not some right wing think tank...

If you didn't get the jab, would you consider having it now?
Buzzinwithbez · 08/03/2023 09:12

Re not being able to get into a football match or nightclub, I feel 'coercion' is wrongly used as this would not cause 'pain, injury, damage' to the person concerned.

On the whole I would agree at lack of harm from not doing these activities, however the social cost to an 18 year old newly at university who is unable to join their peers would be very detrimental to them forming connections. An isolated uni student, especially after two years of being in and out of lockdowns, tiers etc is someone I would be very concerned about.

sunglassesonthetable · 08/03/2023 09:26

On the whole I would agree at lack of harm from not doing these activities, however the social cost to an 18 year old newly at university who is unable to join their peers would be very detrimental to them forming connections. An isolated uni student, especially after two years of being in and out of lockdowns, tiers etc is someone I would be very concerned about.

Totally agree. One of my kids was in this situation.

Lockdown itself is an incredibly tough concept.

Mummyford · 08/03/2023 09:35

CrunchyCarrot · 08/03/2023 08:41

Agree with much of that, @MinkyGreen and @Mummyford.

I do think though that the govt handled care homes shamefully near the beginning of the pandemic, we now know about Matt Hancock's ignoring advice to get people tested before entering care homes in April 2020. I can't imagine what he was thinking.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/52674073

Elderly patients were discharged from hospitals back into care homes and spread the virus that way, because they weren't required to be tested. To say nothing of the shortage of PPE!

In July, Panorama gathered data from 39 hospital trusts, which showed three-quarters of people discharged were untested.

That meant that Covid became widespread in care homes. So requiring care workers later on to be vaccinated or lose their jobs did feel (to me) like trying to shut the stable door after the horse had well and truly bolted. I hope if nothing else comes out of this pandemic, that any future pandemic has these routes of transmission well and truly closed from the outset.

@CrunchyCarrot

I completely agree, and there is no one on earth who despises this government and everything about it more than me (remember Bojo skipping the Cobra meetings because he was hammering out his divorce, or whatever personal crisis he was in the middle of?). I think almost everyone involved other than the science guys was either a lightweight or a moron or evil. I recall watching Italy in horror and being absolutely astonished by the UK's head in the sand approach. Remember the decision not to go ahead with Ascot?

However, to be fair, tests were almost non-existent in the early days. I can't remember exactly when it got faster and easier. I heard an ER doc on the radio the other day reminding us that they were so limited in the number of tests at that point in time (and overwhelmed by the numbers of staff getting ill) that they were making tough decisions on allocating them. He also pointed out that with the numbers of Covid patients, it was almost a given that any patient tested before being discharged to a care home would have ended up catching Covid in the the 48 hours on the ward before their test was turned around, so could have been discharged with a false negative.

In short, the government was shit, Hancock is awful, but there really were no easy choices at the time.

loulouljh · 08/03/2023 09:45

Interesting to hear Chris Whitty's views on things via the Hancock files.....what made him change his mind?

peppathe3rd · 08/03/2023 11:12

i remember being very upset about this failure on behalf of the elderly in care homes near the beginning of covid. i found this article from 2021 ⬆️. i wondered at the time why people didn't seem more upset about this disaster. was it not being reported on widely? i'm genuinely asking if people weren't aware of this travesty until just recently? no judgement, just interested in how news is filtered.

peppathe3rd · 08/03/2023 11:13

again, fingers crossed the author of the article i linked is not a right wing zealot.

sunglassesonthetable · 08/03/2023 11:57

My best friends sister is a paramedic driving ambulances and she was aware that they were discharging elderly people back into care homes potentially WITH Covid because they were doing the transporting. That was in 2020. We were shocked to the core at the time.

It was a terrible, difficult time and it's such bad fate that the incompetent Matt Hancock was in charge of all of that. Now we know he was also despicable.

sunglassesonthetable · 08/03/2023 11:59

Actually I despised him before.

CrunchyCarrot · 08/03/2023 12:06

peppathe3rd · 08/03/2023 11:12

i remember being very upset about this failure on behalf of the elderly in care homes near the beginning of covid. i found this article from 2021 ⬆️. i wondered at the time why people didn't seem more upset about this disaster. was it not being reported on widely? i'm genuinely asking if people weren't aware of this travesty until just recently? no judgement, just interested in how news is filtered.

It's a bit hazy now, I might trawl back a little on MN to see if I can find any threads on it. Since it's snowing and all... 😂

CrunchyCarrot · 08/03/2023 12:08

Aha: Shocked by the news coming from care homes 16th April 2020

www.mumsnet.com/talk/coronavirus/3881907-Shocked-by-the-news-coming-from-care-homes

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