If you didn't get the jab, would you consider having it now?

[AreYouVeryAnti]

You'd better be quick if you're healthy and under 50...

"The Telegraph understands the Government is also preparing to wind down the open offer of the first two doses over the coming months. The move will mean unvaccinated healthy under-50s will soon not be able to get a Covid jab unless one is recommended by a medical professional."

hahaha @MinkyGreen, you have jokes. wonderful to see such dynamics from you

Not taboo to talk about round here. Outside and at work.

Openly and freely discussed. Along with getting Covid.

Just thought of a work colleague who hasn't had the vaccine. That brings it to 3 people I know.

We worked all through Covid and people were delighted to get the vaccine.

Even more so my mum and her contemporaries. Couldn't get there quick enough.

I do agree @statementstate - it was just such a shit time. No one should have to reveal things that they don’t want to, or feel forced into getting vaccinated. Freedom is the ideal.

It’s pitted people against each other in a way I’ve not seen before, and pushed people into very staunch viewpoints.

@MinkyGreen

*There is a difference between :

“You must be vaccinated”
and
“You must be vaccinated in order to”*

You must be vaccinated in order to keep your job which is how you provide for your entire family, here and abroad.
how would you categorise that? as a free choice?

Where I worked a whole testing protocol went on. You didn't have to declare vaccine status but you had to be constantly tested.

Same for my son in his job.

It's so funny. We're expats, so spend most of our time in the UK and some in America, so have a pretty wide circle of friends and acquaintances in two countries, and I know literally not one person, who regrets being vaccinated or suffers from fear about their decision. That narrative does seem somewhat, um, manufactured by the vaccine skeptics, no?

As I've said repeatedly, my mother's a doctor, my father is a science professor and my sister is an epidemiologist. They, and everyone around them, was overwhelmingly thrilled to be vaccinated and, later, boosted. As I've also said, repeatedly, my mother and her colleagues (who do keep track of this, by the way) are not seeing high numbers of vaccine injured patients.

Wasn't aware of anyone refusing to test.

I suppose employers had a duty of care to consider the risks to all their staff and implement what protection they could. I suppose they could do that as they saw fit.

@sunglassesonthetable

Yes, that's what most employers opted for in the end. I used to work for an American-based city law firm in London, and my husband still does (different firm). In the US they both required vaccination to come into the office, but in the UK felt it violated employment/human rights law to ask people to disclose, so opted for testing instead.

@peppathe3rd

There is an element of choice. Granted it’s a shit choice, but it’s not ‘forced’.

Coercion would imply to me that someone was making the decision to try and get you to do something against your will, in a sinister way. In care homes, it was more about protecting the vulnerable people that workers were coming into direct contact with during an emergency.

Similarly - if I wanted to travel
to work or see family in an ICVP country, and didn’t want to get vaccinated - would that be a case of the country forcing/coercing me? Or do I have a choice?

in the example of travel, i would consider that more of a choice. i couldn't see my family for 2 years - a hideous choice but one i made. i did not feel victimised but that choice. losing one's livelihood is a different ball game if you ask me.

Yes, that's what most employers opted for in the end. I used to work for an American-based city law firm in London, and my husband still does (different firm). In the US they both required vaccination to come into the office, but in the UK felt it violated employment/human rights law to ask people to disclose, so opted for testing instead.

This sounds more like my experience during Covid.

I didn't travel so the only time I had to show my vaccine status was via that app at two large sports events.

It didn't come up otherwise and I mostly worked through. Only in chat when everyone was saying "have you had the vax yet?"

What different worlds we all inhabit.

@peppathe3rd

I do understand your view. I don’t think mandates are ‘right’ - and certainly not right where there is no emergency. You are in a job, and then told you can’t do it anymore as their requirements are changing - and you’ve lost your income /livelihood. But I see the need to protect the vulnerable that were being cared for in that job who could lose their lives. Which is why I don’t think it was forcing for sinister reasons.

Sweden also had vaccine passports. Some via a microchip implant. Mentioning as they are often hailed as the country who got it right.

@MinkyGreen
we agree!! so happy about that - genuinely. i also do not feel the mandates/requirements were done for sinister reasons. i do feel, however, that intentions are a very tricky aspect to use in order to judge whether or not a policy was just.

@Mummyford
yes, testing was an option in the large bank i referenced earlier. however, without vax, my friend ( the head of M&A) was not permitted to meet with clients. that made his job impossible to do, so he took the vax out of obligation. his choice was, take the vaccine or lose his livelihood which would have had a dreadful knock in effect for his entire extended family - he supports all of his family here in the uk and abroad. from where i stand, that's not a free choice.

Seems like it was the ' large bank ' who imposed the criteria - Unlike the people I worked for who didn't choose that criteria.

I suppose the organisations were flexing their freedom of choice.

Were they American?

no

Do you think that the business your friend worked for should have had their choices controlled?

eg only implementing testing and not allowing them to require a vax status?

I'm very surprised by this. I know some of the banks considered it, but were advised it could backfire on them, so most, at least in the UK, backed off. Also surprised because at the time, very few meetings, particularly in the world of M&A, where lots of travel is required, were happening face to face. We know lots of people who work in that sector and none of them were travelling. Pretty much everything was happening over zoom.

I'm very surprised by this. I know some of the banks considered it, but were advised it could backfire on them, so most, at least in the UK, backed off. Also surprised because at the time, very few meetings, particularly in the world of M&A, where lots of travel is required, were happening face to face. We know lots of people who work in that sector and none of them were travelling. Pretty much everything was happening over zoom.

He does sound unlucky, since Zoom revolutionised meetings.

@Mummyford
yes, it was after the lockdown period when zoom was almost solely implemented.

Your friend and statementstate picked the wrong people to work for.

As far as " free choice " goes those businesses were exercising theirs.

Unfortunately for your friend's point of view.

well... I still work for the same firm as my friend, @sunglassesonthetable, the ones who checked Covid status via HR. I don't feel they're a bad firm to work for, or I'd not be there still, but the constant checking was confronting.
However, it was the firm my friend worked at before Feb 22 where all staff were told to take the jab or face possible dismisal. It is an American financial firm, and despite everyone getting jabbed, few were made redundant after late 2021, which was strange because in our industry, business was booming more than ever.

It is hard for her to rationalise the whole thing for that reason I think. She is one of the ones who felt forced with life changing consequences.

@Mummyford

I know literally not one person, who regrets being vaccinated or suffers from fear about their decision. That narrative does seem somewhat, um, manufactured by the vaccine skeptics, no?

this is absolutely not a manufactured phenomenon, as far as i am concerned. my husband regrets his decision, as does my MIL. my husband's health has never been an issue until this past year - he blames the decline on the jabs he took that he now feels he never needed in the first place. my MIL has lost over 1/2 her hair which can be a side effect of both covid and the vaccine (from what her doctors have told her). hers was definitely not from covid though because she didn't even catch covid until after her booster. her hair really fell out significantly after the 2nd shot. most people i know do not regret taking the vaccine, but there are certainly people genuinely that do - not something manufactured by vaccine skeptics.