Push for masks to be reintroduced

[GerardusMercator]

Over the last few days I've noticed a big push in media to get masks back on the agenda. A brief foray into twitter and flick through a few Covid threads here, and I've seen all the old pandemic era versions of 'it's no hardship to mask'/ your selfish if you don't want to mask etc start to creep back in.

How many of you are-

1. Still masking now
2. Will mask if it becomes guidance
3. Will mask if it becomes law
4. Will not mask again under any circumstances

I really struggled with masks and don't believe they make a great deal of difference (covid theatre) so would be somewhere between a 3 and 4.

Hope it doesn't become law. Don't think it will, thank goodness.

Because there are so many exemptions, for so many reasons, it sort of invalidates a mask mandate anyway.

And I don’t have a problem at all with anyone not wearing one - I certainly won’t myself if I don’t have to.

A solid 4 from me.

I've just spent nearly 5 hours in hospital with my "vulnerable" (god what a stupid term!) disabled husband. 5 hours in front of consultant after consultant. I can tell you none of them were wearing masks. Go figure.

Anyone who claims that masks don’t work are either being disingenuous or ignorant

Could you explain why China is having such a bad time of it then? They all wear masks. Why aren't their masks working and stopping people catching it?

3 but it'll be the same as last time - mask on as I reach the shop door and off again as soon as I come out and the mask will be in my pocket until the next time I need it. I ignored the advice not to touch the mask when it's on before as I hated the bloody things so much.

2/3

No-one answers this question 🤣

This is a very good point and one that’s always got me.

Ultimately, even countries where mask wearing was the cultural norm pre covid or even mandated during the pandemic didn’t fare any better at the end of the day.

Not just china.

Why didn't Scotland fare better than England during the time it had a mask mandate and England didn't?

Similarly in the US, direct comparisons can be made between states with mandates and those without. It wasn't obvious from comparative rates that masks had any impact.

@TheKeatingFive
@JohnPrescottsPyjamas
@secretllama

I answered it upthread:

In terms of effectiveness, I guess it depends on so many factors. If you put your hand over your mouth when you cough, I guess sometimes it’s completely ineffective and you cough through your fingers - and at other times it IS effective and you stop your virus from being coughed over others. My niece managed to puke into her mask - and SIL said it was highly effective at stopping the puke from projecting everywhere. I copied this from The Independent :

The most tiresome objection to the reintroduction of masks is that “they don’t work”. This is very weak. Obviously it depends on the mask type and the way they’re fitted – wearing it like a neckerchief isn’t much use. But it stands to reason that if even a small proportion of an airborne virus is rendered harmless by a mask, then that’s one less case of potentially severe illness.

The best N95 masks are fairly effective, but all work to some degree. How do I know this? Because, unfashionable as it seems to be, I trust what the scientists tell us. This, for example, is the conclusion of a survey of studies on the effectiveness of face coverings by the UK Health Security Agency published in 2021. The expert panel stated, and I’m including their caution here: “The current evidence on face coverings suggests that all types of face coverings are, to some extent, effective in reducing transmission of Sars-CoV-2 in both healthcare and community settings.

“N95 respirators are likely to be the most effective, followed by surgical masks and then non-medical masks, although optimised non-medical masks made of two or three layers might have similar filtration efficiency to surgical masks. The evidence specific to coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) is still limited and does not allow for firm conclusions to be drawn for specific settings and type of face coverings.”

This exactly! One look at the charts documenting the waves in California and Florida are enough to prove that masks achieve the sum total of the square root of fuck all

A reluctant 3. But I don’t think it will become law again.

If I had to wear a mask in shops, I’d rather shop online.

Someone linked this upthread, I thought it was good!

DOES the mere suggestion that wearing a mask might stop the spread of illness send you into apoplectic paranoid fury, or are you normal? Take our quiz.

Do you enjoy freaking out about things that aren’t actually happening?

A) No, there’s an awful lot of real stuff to freak out about at the moment without making up some extra nonsense. No one’s making me wear a mask.

B) Just because they haven’t forced us to wear masks yet, it doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen any second. Who are ‘they’? Do some research, idiots.

Do you spend too much time on social media?

A) No, it mainly seems to be full of grifters and conspiracy theorists.

B) How much is too much? Because it’s the only place you can discover the truth about everything from chemtrails to ‘the Great Reset’. All those conspiracy theories take time to digest.

Do you think the government is secretly trying to control you?

A) I know the government encourage us to behave a certain way as a population but I don’t think they have a particular interest in me, no. Because I’m not a massive narcissist.

B) Yes, the UK government is a puppet of shadowy forces that want to subjugate me personally, which would definitely happen if I wore a mask for five minutes while popping to Tesco.

Do you use terms like ‘face nappy’ and ‘muzzle’ without feeling embarrassed?

A) Absolutely not. Because I’m a grown adult who understands public health issues and not a conspiracy-addled teenager perpetually plugged into the internet.

B) Of course. I also think the phrase ‘sheeple’ is an excellent demonstration of my towering intellect.

Would you tut at someone you saw wearing a mask on the street?

A) No. They could have anything going on, like a seriously ill relative. Also, I’ve got other things to think about than being a judgemental twat.

B) Yes. They are willingly wearing the shackles of slavery. We must rise up against the Deep State, the World Economic Forum, George Soros, Shergar and whatever other bollocks I’ve got obsessed with on Reddit this week.

Answers

Mostly As: You might consider wearing a mask again if health professionals recommended it but at the moment it all seems to be a fuss kicked up by the Daily Mail.

Mostly Bs: You say ‘paranoid’, I say ‘awake’. And of course I’m in an apoplectic fury, I spend several hours a day on Twitter.

I answered it upthread

Your answer doesn't stand up against significant amounts of real world data however.

“N95 respirators are likely to be the most effective, followed by surgical masks and then non-medical masks, although optimised non-medical masks made of two or three layers might have similar filtration efficiency to surgical masks. The evidence specific to coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19) is still limited and does not allow for firm conclusions to be drawn for specific settings and type of face coverings.”

It's quite telling that they caveated their findings to this extent even before Omicron.

We do actually have ample evidence now that mask wearing as practiced in the community isn't preventing highly transmissible Omicron variants cantering through populations, or even leading to obviously better outcomes for populations with mask laws. That knowledge in itself has an impact on people's willingness to go along with mask wearing, it couldn't not. Unfortunately, many people don't understand that mask laws or even guidance existing and the public all wearing properly fitted FFP3s all the time are two quite different things.

@TheKeatingFive

but the consensus opinion of real world data is they do provide protection. The majority opinion. That’s why globally - it’s recommended that people wear them. That’s why the NHS advise it.

but the consensus opinion of real world data is they do provide protection

Furstly, I don't think you can say that. Has everyone weighed in on it?

Secondly, the data doesn't back it up.

@SirMingeALot

Ample evidence? Who are the big ‘we’? Sounds like bollocks to me.

@TheKeatingFive

because it’s the standard advice globally!! They don’t just say it for fun!!

Consensus opinion? So much for following the science of the data.

I'm trying to use polite words but boy, do you mask lovers make it hard

“Now, three years into the pandemic, evidence around masks and our experience using them has grown enormously. Laboratory studies and outbreak investigations have shown that masks lower the amount of virus that enters the air and reduce the quantity of viruses that enter our airways when we breathe. Recent studies have shown that wearing a surgical mask in an indoor public setting reduces the odds of testing positive for COVID-19 by 66%, and wearing an N95/KN95 type of mask lowers the odds of testing positive by 83%.“

because it’s the standard advice globally!! They don’t just say it for fun!!

Firstly, it isn't. Most places don't currently have a mandate. Secondly there are lots of reasons they might recommend masks despite the fact they don't work. To make a political point, to make it feel like somethings being done, to appease various groups who are shouting loudly.

The bottom line is that the data doesn't support their efficacy.

We as in humanity.

To pick a couple of examples, it's not a matter of opinion that Scotland had covid rates just as bad as England's, worse at some points I think, during the period when England had abolished mask laws and Scotland retained them. Or that England had mask laws at the time we had a huge Omicron wave this time last year, actually. It's not a matter of opinion that China has mask laws and spiralling covid rates at present.

This is why it's so important to understand that how people respond to mask laws is a distinct question in itself, and cannot be answered by any amount of data about the effectiveness of, say, FFP3 or even surgical masks if people actually wear them and do so properly.

There is strong evidence that masks help to reduce the transmission of several respiratory viruses. One paper published in 2020 by researchers in Hong Kong showed that people sick with either Covid-19 or the flu breathed out fewer viral particles when they were wearing a surgical mask. (Masks were found not to be as effective for the rhinovirus, though, which causes the common cold.) A study of Covid-19 policies in Boston-area schools found that removing a mask mandate in 2022 was tied to nearly 12,000 additional cases among students and staff.

Laboratory studies and outbreak investigations have shown that masks lower the amount of virus that enters the air and reduce the quantity of viruses that enter our airways when we breathe

Firstly, let's see the study, but secondly, lab studies are no replica for real life, where masks aren't being worn under lab conditions.

In my experience, the lab studies dry up once we're talking about omicron anyway.