Has anyone seen the 1,000 peer reviewed medical papers about vaccine injuries.

[sassandfaff]

community.covidvaccineinjuries.com/compilation-peer-reviewed-medical-papers-of-covid-vaccine-injuries/

Would this influence anyone from getting the next booster?

@activediscussions There has been 16 million recorded cases of Covid in the past year in the UK, 25% of the population. As not everyone got tested even when we were testing the numbers are significantly higher in reality. They estimated that there were 3 million active cases in several of the weeks in the run up to the summer.

So you are more likely to get myocarditis from the vaccine it would appear at first glance, BUT, you are more likely to get Covid if you are unvaccinated so it's not a straight comparison. And there's lots of other nasty things that Covid can give you: blood clots; lung, liver, pancreas, kidney damage; long covid; neurological problems...

@BeethovenNinth - It is an interesting question but I don’t think there is one answer to it. Europe is a lot more interconnected (i.e. lots of countries with land borders close together, the Shengen region) making it harder to totally shut borders like Aus/NZ did. Our economies are very outward looking with large expat populations so lots of international connections flying in and out as well as import/exports. Europe tends to be liberal democracies so authoritarian rules not possible, regardless of what people think, we weren’t welding people into their homes or dragging them off to quarantine centres. Cultural norms, didn’t normally wear masks if ill, less respect for authority. Europe also got hit quite early, wasn’t there the skier who went from Wuhan to Italy and became a super spreader?

The US I can’t help but feel it’s the politicisation of a public health crisis. A huge % of anti-maskers, different laws for different states based on political lines, people ignoring rules and low vaccine take up. Even more so than the UK

@orbitalcrisis - I think the ONS estimate is that over 70% of the UK have had covid whether they know it or not

@ChilliBandit Doesn't surprise me, I know very few people who haven't had it.
It was rampant in the months after they stopped free testing.

Since we stopped testing over 20,000 people have died from Covid, more if you count those who have it listed as a contributing factor on their death certificate. That's about 14 times higher the annual influenza deaths in just 5.5 months! Since the percentage who die of Covid is very small now, that means a huge amount must have had it!

Please let this be sarcasm.

If someone has 2 vaccinations in one year, I don't understand why it's not 2 x risk of side effects.

And thanks for the informative discussion. It's helping me, at least.

the institution with which a researcher is affiliated does not automatically translate to the quality of the research output. Or the importance.

The poster possibly means Stanford.

but that just underlines your point.

Why is it that the people least equipped to actually critically interrogate medical research seem to be the most vocal about doing so?

If someone has 2 vaccinations in one year, I don't understand why it's not 2 x risk of side effects

why would it be?

every time you take paracetamol does that double your risk of side effects? What if you need chemo? If it worked like that no one could have more than one course.

regardless, side effects are calculated across all doses. They aren’t just worked out based on everyone’s first dose. So the risk is based across all doses anyway.

i don’t understand why you think the risk would double?

Why is it that the people least equipped to critically interrogate medical research seem to be the most vocal about doing so?

Oh! I know this one! It's the Dunning Kruger Effect.

It's a form of cognitive bias. People get a superficial, two-dimensional understanding of something and assume they have completely mastered it. It happens all the time in healthcare. People read something online and convince themselves of all sorts of rubbish. If you try to explain to them that it's not that simple, they get indignant and shirty about it.

Stamford is not easily recognisable, I had to google it 😂.

It's a pretty posh commuter town for NYC, on Long Island sound, and has some very nice beaches. The UConn branch isn't much to get excited about and does no medical research that I'm aware of. 😂

I haemorrhaged for two days after getting the booster. My gynaecologist said it’s a common complication with the vaccine. I’ve absolutely no intention of getting another.

I believe that the risk of myocarditis in young men was increased after second dose so we can't assume that each vaccination is discrete as this totally ignores interaction with the effect on innate immune system. The innate immune system is poorly understood.

This is not just about the Covid vaccination. My mother developed severe and crippling life long rheumatoid arthritis after the flu jab. It is a known side effect. Autoimmune conditions can manifest after this sort of vaccination.

On a population level it is beneficial (especially for those with high risk) but on a personal level it is a roll of the dice. If you are not at high risk the cost/benefit may not be worth the risk. This is the information we need to make an informed decision.

But in the absence of understanding of individual immune status, or understanding of how vaccination interacts with innate immunity (2 years in) with a virus (currently) with low risk of severe morbidity or mortality for those under 75, rationally, why?

I wouldn’t get it anyway, felt no worse than a normal cold tbh

Has anyone else noticed a real uptick in these kinds of threads/posting?

Always makes me wonder what's driving it.

@sassandfaff - don't get a booster if you don't want to, but I wouldn't be using that dodgy AF website to influence your decision.

Have any of you ever read the story of Dr Alice Stewart?
She published her preliminary findings in The Lancet in 1956, about x-rays and pregnant women.
It took another 25 years before America and the UK stopped x-raying pregnant women.
Science can move real slow when people don't want to admit their wrong. Cognitive dissonance and dogma is all the rage.

*they're

This is the problem with anti-vaxers. You don't have the critical thinking skills to evaluate scientific studies, you can't assess risk, and due to lack of education and/or intelligence you distrust experts.

Cherry picking events to support your ill-founded views on a surface level just shows the lack of depth to your opinions.

Ah @sassandfaff your thin veil just slipped so you’ve gone from the ‘I’m just naive and asking questions’ to reveal you are a full blown anti-vaxxer trying to pedal your conspiracy bullshit with that last post.

From across the pond too

the whole, ‘this thing happened in the 1950s (you know nearly 70 years ago) and we should all use this single example to dismiss anything we feel like in 2022’ argument is not exactly robust. Is it?

nothing significant or relevant has changed in any way since the 1950s.

I've never seen someone knowledgeable like a virologist or immunologist
refer to vaccine induced side effects as "vaccine injuries" or that someone has been "vaccine injured"

It seems to be a term pushed by various anti-vaccine misinformation groups and I only ever see it on bad faith posts...

First of the "vaccine injured" stories is for Justin Bieber.

Who had facial paralysis due Ramsey-Hunt syndrome - caused by a shingles outbreak. Yet they're claiming this is due to vaccination.

Do you see the issue here @sassandfaff ?

And loads of these aren't actually empirical evidence (along with the other issues people have raised)

"Myocarditis and Pericarditis After COVID-19 mRNA Vaccination: Practical Considerations for Care Providers"

for example

From across the pond too Hmm

The US until fairly recently, if not currently, still vaccinate their military personnel against small pox.

I found this out when Americans tried to argue that small pox is still endemic in certain countries, because why else would the military vaccinate if the disease had been eradicated?

i did have a quick look and apparently the military’s logic for this is that it will protect them against a biological attack.