Is it ok to ask about the ramping up of vaccine side effects stories?

[SparklingJam]

I’m generally pro vaccines, but I’m starting to question the effects of the covid jab, and wonder if it’s possible to have a discussion about it. Apologies if this has been done to death, or isn’t an accepted topic.

I’ve been seeing more information about deaths of young men, how the vaccine isn’t very effective against covid, and hearing all about dreadful side effects, to the point where some people won’t have the jab because they “know” they’ll die.

I can fully accept that there are side effects, but the talk of increased deaths (apparently 1300 excess deaths per week, coupled with videos of supposed undertakers saying they are 50-100% busier now) is making me question things and worry.

Having said that, in my extended circle of friends, family and colleagues, I know many people who are mostly vaccinated, and apart from a day or 5 of feeling fluey they all have no side effects and haven’t died.
At the same time through the same extended group, I know a couple who have died of covid and several who still have long covid which has disabled them to varying degrees.

It would be logical to think that the excess deaths are a catch up to lock down and lack of hospital treatment, plus the current issues many have with seeing a gp or calling an ambulance, but I am assured by certain people that the excess deaths are solely due to the vaccine.

@saltedcaramel1
did you read my reply to the person?

aftermath wasn't a great choice of words. i honestly didn't know what term to use. i debated side effects, complications, etc but figured all those words would be triggering. i found it sad that no one showed the person any care. i realise they didn't specifically ask a question, but i figured one of you would quickly explain the normality of what they were feeling and reassure them. nothing from any of you - that underlines the lack of empathy and kindness i see from your group, at least on here, pretty much without fail.

That’s what was stated in his obituary.

If someone posted on a thread, without sounding concerned or asking any questions, that they had a fever/headache with COVID, I also wouldn't necessarily reply. It's weird you're turning an everyday occurence into some huge thing.

I also find the reference to "your group" very telling - there's that false dichotomy again.

I am pro offering vaccination to groups when there is robust evidence that the benefits outweight the costs. It was very clear this is the case for the coronavirus vaccines.

No one is denying that side effect occur, but this doesn't mean it was a mistake for population level roll out, which is what all your posts are trying to imply. It's exhausting.

I am assuming they didn't put in quotation marks?

It's in pfizers official documents which I have right here if you want to see?
thought not...

Yup I'd like to see - please link what you're referring to.

So your original post was deleted, I posted links to not one but two debunkings of it by credible sources, and now you want to raise it again?

I really don't I'm tired of going round in circles. I have done so much research and yes, I have - lots, since suffering a vaccine injury 17 years ago!

So would you try and debunk Pfizers official data too? I'm sure when the trials finished there will be much more data for you to try and debunk.

@saltedcaramel1

If someone posted on a thread, without sounding concerned or asking any questions, that they had a fever/headache with COVID, I also wouldn't necessarily reply. It's weird you're turning an everyday occurence into some huge thing.

no, i wouldn't expect you to reply to anyone who just reaches out for contact, presumably . they posted it for some reason, no? perhaps they needed someone to talk to? who knows? human empathy seems to evade you. your coldness is stark and unpleasant and unfortunate. you jump to reply to anyone with vaccine hesitancy with persistent defensiveness and condescension. it is also very boring and tiresome.

Why won't you link the data you're referring to, like you offered?

Very happy to look at with my scientist hat on.

Ah yes, the doctor who claims a diet can protect you from a virus. He has a lot of interesting ideas, quite a few of which would be dismissed as outright cranky if it wasn’t for the fact that he is a doctor so the words he speaks must be true.

Because it is simply not allowed. Perhaps you may try and find it yourself.

human empathy seems to evade you. your coldness is stark and unpleasant and unfortunate. you jump to reply to anyone with vaccine hesitancy with persistent defensiveness and condescension.

This is completely untrue - feel free to link any posts if you think otherwise.

If someone doesn't want to be vaccinated, that's completely their decision. If someone thinks they have a side effect, or a vaccine induced illness, then I hope they get proper treatment, investigation and empathy.

All this is just a massively manipulative swerve to try and prevent people from pointing out health disinformation @peppathe3rd

It's ironic, because all these claims do is take away from people who genuinely do have side effects and need support and attention.

Right - so you have this data from Pfizer that shows it is harmful, but you can't possibly link it? Sounds about right

Why did you offer to just a couple of posts ago?

There is absolutely no issue with sharing trial or post-authorisation data, it's in the public domain.

For pretty much my entire life, my mother has gone to bed at night with a stack of journals containing themes up-to-date, properly conducted peer-reviewed studies and analyses out there. She believes vaccination is overwhelmingly safe. For herself and for us. As do my brother, my sister, my father and the numerous other health professionals around them. I'd be very interested in knowing what data you have access to or an understanding of that they don't?

Because it says it's confidential and must not be distributed or shared and that any information read should be kept confidential.

Then how do you have access to it?

Why you have access to it but no scientists or clinicans do?

I spend a significant portion of my week updating myself on the latest developments regarding coronavirus & vaccines - I'm suprised neither me nor any of my collegues have seen this mystery document.

And again - why did you offer to share it just half an hour ago?

Who shared it with you? How and why?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9138197/

But these vaccines are not licenced or authorised by the FDA. They have only been given EMA.

@Samarie123

No it didn’t. You tried to share something from a far right, highly controversial video hosting site. Mumsnet quite rightly censored it. Nothing to do with it being ‘highly confidential’. You are NOT in on some ‘special information’ just because you’ve gone down a rabbit hole of watching videos on a site known as YouTube for Nazis.

This is all giving strong "chosen hero in dystopian sci fi movie" vibes.

Maybe I'm just being cautious not to share. And it really wouldn't be of any benefit to those who have already been vaccinated. And I am sure you could find it somewhere if you dig around. So much cencorship.