Is it ok to ask about the ramping up of vaccine side effects stories?

[SparklingJam]

I’m generally pro vaccines, but I’m starting to question the effects of the covid jab, and wonder if it’s possible to have a discussion about it. Apologies if this has been done to death, or isn’t an accepted topic.

I’ve been seeing more information about deaths of young men, how the vaccine isn’t very effective against covid, and hearing all about dreadful side effects, to the point where some people won’t have the jab because they “know” they’ll die.

I can fully accept that there are side effects, but the talk of increased deaths (apparently 1300 excess deaths per week, coupled with videos of supposed undertakers saying they are 50-100% busier now) is making me question things and worry.

Having said that, in my extended circle of friends, family and colleagues, I know many people who are mostly vaccinated, and apart from a day or 5 of feeling fluey they all have no side effects and haven’t died.
At the same time through the same extended group, I know a couple who have died of covid and several who still have long covid which has disabled them to varying degrees.

It would be logical to think that the excess deaths are a catch up to lock down and lack of hospital treatment, plus the current issues many have with seeing a gp or calling an ambulance, but I am assured by certain people that the excess deaths are solely due to the vaccine.

@BeethovenNinth

Sorry but my personal opinion is that - suspicion and negativity is probably encouraging you to attribute a non-professional, non-peer reviewed assumption to what is anecdotal evidence.

You cannot base medical decision for the global population on a hunch OR on anecdotal evidence.

There are vast, vast quantities of professional, peer reviewed data analysis/research by the top medical experts globally that it is safe to take the vaccine. This is FAR more reliable.

These measures/vaccine passports etc were being used globally. Your niece chose not to comply, and at the time the university had to consider the needs of all their students - it was impossible to just only consider the needs of one. I hope she can take up the place again with encouragement and good advice.

I haven't ever put a stick in my nose or had a vaccine (same as my DP). And I am in NO WAY down some rabbit hole! I choose my own path in life and refuse to be led. I look at both sides of a story and use my own brain to decide what is right and wrong - And it looks like people like us chose right!

@Samarie123

What was your rationale for thinking doing a LFT was not a reasonable compromise at the time?

Given that...
-you got immediate results so did not have to isolate uncessarily
-there was support in place if testing positive
-the majority of people have tested positive once, so whilst frustrating, having to isolate once a ~2.5 year period isn't too bad when considering the population level benefits.

(I fully appreciate why people would not want to test now at this point in the pandemic due to a variety of reasons)

@pinkred because I think many people when ‘looking from both sides’ were only ‘looking from both sides” in terms of their own personal needs/agenda (plus swayed by a huge deluge of misinformation from unreliable sources due social media - which happened to suit their tendency for psychological reactance : rather than to think about critically/ a refusal to think about it critically).

The side that was being wilfully ignored was exactly that : the population level benefits plus how Covid was being managed globally/where we stood in comparison to other countries.

@Samarie123 not talking generally but specifically these 3 people who have such extreme views eg defending Putin., chem trails containing flu etc etc. I could go on.

@pinkred The reason I didn't do any tests was because I thought it would be damaging to my health - same as how I think about vaccines, masks and hand sanitiser etc. I was actually gob smacked at how many people obeyed ridiculous orders.

I do find it fascinating how all these apparently unrelated viewpoints converge

COVID minimising / anti-vaccine / defending Putin / climate change denial etc

I noticed many of the bot anti-vaccine accounts on twitter immediately switched to anti-Ukraine tweeting as soon as things with COVID died down, and this took up most of the newspaper headlines.

Why did you think doing a LFT would be damaging to your health?

It’s just such a ridiculous argument to still be having.

The best medical minds worldwide agree that the vaccine is safe.

Then are a few fringe doctors - who the anti vaxxers are latching on to via social media.

If - globally - in medicine - we took the advice of fringe doctors over mainstream, would that be in the best interests of public health? Of course not.

Those who are against it tend to think a) it’s a conspiracy b) have high levels of psychological reactance c) have a fear of blood/needles d) have very individualistic or hierarchical world views.

I would suggest it’s very little to do with it being ‘damaging to health’ - it’s more about a reaction against rules and regulations being imposed that imposed on an individual’s freedom. Western countries are used to a high level of individuality - so when Covid rules came in - many reacted against it.
The more compliant nations probably lean more to communism.

@pinkred at least one used to avidly take in stuff from the media outlet Russia Today and has been doing so for at least 4 years and probably much more. .
O and LFT tests contain nano particles which break the blood brain barrier apparently and I should be dead by now according to one of the others.

@pinkred O I forgot Trump is wonderful and Biden is a paedophile

Um no not for me. I read up on things and when I read they contained Ethylene Oxide it would have been mad to do that to my body. Not to mention putting a swab so close to the blood brain barrier - it was a no brainer!!

But yeah I was totally against the lack of freedom too and went on protests.
And I was right in that sense too as number 10 were living it up!

Um no not for me. I read up on things and when I read they contained Ethylene Oxide it would have been mad to do that to my body. Not to mention putting a swab so close to the blood brain barrier - it was a no brainer!!

And yet hundreds of thousands of people who have spent years training in science and medicine are happy to do a LFT?

I'd be happy to link to a couple of article explaining why they're not unsafe, but I suspect it's falling on deaf ears.

You do seem to have fallen for all of the conspiracy theories regarding any kind of measure taken to suppress coronvirus.

@Samarie123
I agree with you about inserting those swabs so far up the nose. That always seemed mad to me, and I asked several doctors why it needed to be inserted so far up. I never received an answer, so I, like you, never did it - nor did I allow that to happen to my children. I also asked many doctors about the ethanyl oxide that was on the swabs, because the idea of inserting a carcinogen directly into our bodies troubled me. Again, I never received a satisfactory answer, so I did not subject myself, nor my children, to that toxic substance. I did perform LFT and PCR tests without inserting into our bodies, and the results were accurate even without the invasiveness. When I had Covid, the results were positive even though I did not put the swabs directly into my body. That was how I managed it, and when I did test positive for Covid, i stayed at home and had my children stay at home because I did not want to pass it on.

www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/substances/ethylene-oxide

Before the fact-checkers out there explain that the use of EO is common and safety tested, etc... I chose not to insert a carcinogen directly into my body, no matter what the trace amount may have been. The tests worked fine without making direct contact with my body, so no need to link to disinformation articles explaining than anyone dubious of EO gets their information from facebook or twitter or whatever other nonsense that is usually thrown our way.

I also asked many doctors about the ethanyl oxide that was on the swabs, because the idea of inserting a carcinogen directly into our bodies troubled me

Ethylene oxide is commonly used to sterilise medical & cosmetic devices, including things like plasters & stents that are implanted within the body @peppathe3rd

Absolutely no one cared about any of this, until it was decided it could be a reason to not test for coronavirus.

Again - why would all these doctors & scientists be happy for themselves and their family members to use them? I work in a busy teaching hospital filled with people qualified in science and medicine - at some points we were testing twice a week.

www.bcpp.org/resource/ethylene-oxide/

www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-09/documents/ethylene-oxide.pdf

@pinkred

Absolutely no one cared about any of this, until it was decided it could be a reason to not test for coronavirus.

That is incorrect. Firstly, most people were not aware of the toxic substance until the swabs arrived at our doorsteps, and some of us looked into what we were told to insert deeply into our children's nasal passages. Secondly, this knowledge did not give me a reason not to test, it simply made me not want to jam it up my children's noses - so I tested without doing that.

What do you mean?

If you've ever had a medical procedure, a smear test, used a plaster, cotton wool - all these things have been sterilised using the same process as swabs.

I'm just pointing out that no one seemed to care about these items previously, and nor do they now. It's just anything to do with coronavirus suppression.

I think the concerns with ethylene oxide are more when it is in gas form in large quantities and. in confined spaces.so controls need to be in place in production.
A tiny amount used to sterilise equipment or swabs isn't an issue although incidentally I know a person who needed a GI scope but refused for this reason. Bizarrely they were willing to risk a cancer being missed than have the procedure. Thankfully the risk paid off.

@pinkred
I mean that most people were not aware that EO is a carcinogen, and having a pap smear once every few years is not comparable to inserting swabs sterilised with EO far up into one's nasal passage twice a week, as you did. Understandably, this would not be the same as spraying EO in its gaseous form straight up one's nose, but it remained a concern that I chose to avoid. I also avoid pesticides in food and GMO products as much as possible - nothing to do with belligerently refusing to comply with any methods of coronavirus suppression.

@Samarie123

So if you are THAT concerned about your brain health - why are you typing messages on a screen? There are plenty of not only mainstream, but also dodgy/youtube style ‘fringe’ studies (which I expect you prefer) - that say screen time is no good for your brain…