Is it ok to ask about the ramping up of vaccine side effects stories?

[SparklingJam]

I’m generally pro vaccines, but I’m starting to question the effects of the covid jab, and wonder if it’s possible to have a discussion about it. Apologies if this has been done to death, or isn’t an accepted topic.

I’ve been seeing more information about deaths of young men, how the vaccine isn’t very effective against covid, and hearing all about dreadful side effects, to the point where some people won’t have the jab because they “know” they’ll die.

I can fully accept that there are side effects, but the talk of increased deaths (apparently 1300 excess deaths per week, coupled with videos of supposed undertakers saying they are 50-100% busier now) is making me question things and worry.

Having said that, in my extended circle of friends, family and colleagues, I know many people who are mostly vaccinated, and apart from a day or 5 of feeling fluey they all have no side effects and haven’t died.
At the same time through the same extended group, I know a couple who have died of covid and several who still have long covid which has disabled them to varying degrees.

It would be logical to think that the excess deaths are a catch up to lock down and lack of hospital treatment, plus the current issues many have with seeing a gp or calling an ambulance, but I am assured by certain people that the excess deaths are solely due to the vaccine.

My concern is that no one is investigating what are clearly worrying excess death figures.

But this is bollocks because people are looking into it. There are lots of discussions of what the issues are, and where the excess deaths are occurring.

Have you been told that no one is investigating and just believed it? Or are you just unhappy that those discussing it don’t think it’s anything to do with the vaccines?

The excess death figures are being investigated, but the public don't seem interested in the excess deaths that appear to be linked with having had the disease. There has been an increase in SADS, strokes and other adverse cardiovascular events, and this does need further study.

This doesn't fit the "it's only a cold" and "post-viral syndrome has always been around" narrative. I definitely think this is a disease to avoid

I am interested in the excess deaths. I can’t believe it isn’t discussed more

However I don’t believe it started in 2020 so I don’t know how much is to do with covid itself.

Florida appears to have halted mRNA vaccines in younger males due to cardiac risks.

they state it’s due to an examination of more recent evidence.

i wonder how they can show it’s the vaccine rather than covid causing it but it’s in interesting decision.

Eh? Florida have not offered vaccines to children & young people since March.

i wonder how they can show it’s the vaccine rather than covid causing it
Based on the paper you linked on another thread - they can't.

Quote from said paper:

These data are preliminary, based on surveillance data, and should be interpreted with caution. The results have several limitations:

This study cannot determine the causative nature of a participant’s death. We used death certificate data and not medical records.

COVID testing status was unknown for those who did not die of/with
COVID.

Cardiac-related deaths were ascertained if an ACME code of I3-I52 were on their death certificate, thus, the underlying cause of death may not be cardiac-related.

I know of several people who have had blood clots similar issues that have been told its due to the Covid vaccine. However my understanding is this can happen with any vaccine, its due to the way the vaccine has been given.

I'm in France and my friend's daughter is studying médecine and spent the summer of 2021 in a CHU cardiology ward. Most patients were young men with myocarditis following the Covid vaccine. The Moderna vaccine is no longer given to young people here for this reason.

I think it’s males under 40. I will try to link it. I didn’t link it on the other friend as I’m useless with things like that.

but using death certificates presumably shows a cause of death as CV related? So of reasonable accuracy?

I think what they said was cardio vascular issues within certain days post vaccination

Social media isn't a reliable source of research. Always suspect

Exploring the relationship between all-cause and cardiac-related mortality following COVID-19 vaccination or infection in Florida residents: a self-controlled case series study

floridahealthcovid19.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/20221007-guidance-mrna-covid19-vaccines-analysis.pdf?utmmedium=email&utmm_source=govdelivery

links to the pfizer data that someone was enquiring about i believe...

phmpt.org/pfizers-documents/

Who are the "Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency"?
Which of the documents on there has led to you being concerned?

I really don’t understand why - people can’t accept that - the most highly qualified people quantify and study this data. They then make the best decision they can - with all their knowledge, peer reviewed research etc etc in the interest of public health.

Anecdotal evidence/to focus on one paper - while discounting all others - is not as reliable as the consensus of thought.

It’s just barmy that this debate is going on.

And as far as I can see - the vaccine sceptics tend not to be highly educated, they tend to have dubious ‘other’ beliefs (horoscopes/pseudoscience/homeopathy etc etc) - and are more than willing to trust dubious research over the most robust research.

@bronzepig

@foliageeverywhere wrote:
So you're not going to link the Pfizer data @BeethovenNinth ?
As I said, I can't give you an answer unless you actually share what it is you're referring to.

⬆️ post is the data requested I believe

But this data has been analysed and I would guess probably 95% of experts would say vaccine = safe/in your best interests to take.

Then there might be 5% who do not (and this tends to be controversial ‘experts’).

So why would you choose to side with the controversial science, and try to persuade others to do the same??

If continually in medicine, you rejected the consensus of opinion over the controversial 5% opinion - would this be in the best interests of public health?

You can look at the yellow card scheme, I do. I haven't had it any never will. Fully understand the older generation getting it xxxxxxxx

@snowbellsxox - do you believe your opinion on the yellow card scheme data is better than the consensus of scientific opinion on the yellow card scheme data?

I want to know what is going on with excess deaths!

So the ONS report isn't good enough?
Nor the link to heat waves in Europe & in UK in 2022? Excesses are overwhelmingly (in sheer raw counts) in people age 70.

Delayed presentations & delayed processing when they end up in A&E would easily explain the 2022 numbers.

And as far as I can see - the vaccine sceptics tend not to be highly educated, they tend to have dubious ‘other’ beliefs(horoscopes/pseudoscience/homeopathy etc etc) - and are more than willing to trust dubious research over the most robust research.

@Trumpetitus Indeed. I have Facebook Friends who share posts from hidden and expected define pretty much every sudden death as vaccine related. They talk of pets behaving strangely due to5G or vaccine shedding.
He also believes Russia are not the bad guys, chemtrails contain the Flu Virus, Biden is a paedophilia Trump is the bees knee's.
Pretty much anti anything woke etc.
I could go on. So sad how indoctrinated he has become.

I don’t think you can just dumpster dive the yellow card data. How do you account for base rate for a start.

I personally believe people who are experiencing adverse reactions and are begging nhs for help than some paid scientists and politicians

Unfortunately for very many of those who do have vaccine injuries (none of whom were anti-vaxxers... we had the vaccine) the failure of the NHS to recognise and acknowledge what has happened to us, let alone try and help has driven many people into the arms of the anti-vaxxers. I finally have some answers, and may be able to access some treatment, after several thousands of pounds worth of private referrals to neurologists, rhematologists, cardiologists etc. I am lucky in that I could organise and pay for these.

after several thousands of pounds worth of private referrals to neurologists, rhematologists, cardiologists etc. I am lucky in that I could organise and pay for these

But what I don't understand about this, is if you have a health problem, it needs to be treated regardless of cause?

So say you have severe POTS/type 1 diabetes/athritis that you believe was caused by having a coronavirus vaccine. Whether it was caused by the vaccine, a COVID infection, or was simply a coincidence it happened to you now, the treatment is the same.

Why wouldn't the NHS treat these patients? Or is it simply that anyone with any chronic health condition is being fobbed off, because the immense strain the NHS is under?

What explains the younger ones dying then?

Seriously - you can defend this bloody thing as much as you want but they can't hide it forever!

I knew it before and tried to warn people but no one listened - I was called a conspiracy theorist antivaxx nutjob - Well I think us 'conspiracy theorists' may be being proven right!

tried to warn people but no one listened - I was called a conspiracy theorist antivaxx nutjob - Well I think us 'conspiracy theorists' may be being proven right!

There is literally no evidence that it wasn't safer to be vaccinated that not vaccinated. Vaccination saved millions of lives.

At this point in time, only those at higher risk are being offered a booster. They do not have to have this if they don't want to.

This sudden influx of misinformation on MN is incredibly tedious.