Would you consider canceling a holiday/family visit if COVID was surging there?

[Muffster]

The idea of flying to visit family and stay with them for a summer holiday is now giving me concern: 1 in 19 people where my family live have COVID, there is a surge going on and it hasn’t peaked yet.

There are very few people masking, case numbers are not accurately reported, people do not have to stay home when positive/unwell so infections continue and the health care system there appears to be under serious strain.

would you fly over and visit now?

Yeah, I think you actually have this arse about face OP. It isn't that people are behaving as they are because the government aren't bothered about covid, it's that the government now couldn't possibly try and enforce restrictions given the way they've behaved. Even after Johnson fucks off, whoever replaces him connived in the lies and bullshit for months too. In England, compliance with mask laws and isolation was starting to break down before they got rid of it, there are threads on here talking about it. The trust has gone.

It might be that without Partygate we wouldn't be in this position, I don't know, but we are. It's really hard to overestimate how raw the anger at the hypocrisy it is, the damage it's done. It may be hard to fully appreciate this when you haven't been living in the society that has experienced it.

I do agree with you on the need for better ventilation and air quality, but we have gone beyond the point where the state trying to restrict people's behaviour is viable public health policy here now. Neither the trust nor the moral standing are there. That isn't fixable by appeals to embrace restrictions or call them something else, particularly not when we've already seen what happened when different constituent countries in the UK kept them for longer and did no better.

I had it last month so I’m carrying on entirely as normal over summer. I know you can get it again but I’m thinking I should at least get a couple of months out of it, I got it just as this wave started to kick off.

i think you are catastrophising about possible worst case scenarios. I had it 6 weeks ago and if I hadn’t randomly decided to tickle my nose with a test stick to rule it out I’d have carried on as normal. I had to keep reminding myself I had it. Did the 5 days isolation (bit longer actually)

I’ve had much worse colds and I’m absolutely fine now. Triple vaccinated. Nearly 50 and was (not extremely) clinically vulnerable.

I honestly don’t think anything can be done now that will make any difference to infection rates. Scotland had masks and restrictions for way longer than other U.K. nations and we had higher cases. Vaccination at least means we can live a proper life with the case numbers we have. The deaths with these case levels back in 2020 would have been goddawful

So basically even though the country you live in has kept all restrictions in place the cases are still doubling?

From a tiny base we’ve doubled yes, we now have 12 people in hospital,
5 of them were picked asymptomatic because they were tested on protocols as they came in for other things
we just released a bunch of restrictions,
tourists no longer have to test negative,
damn, BA.5 is contagious
that was quick

You’re addressing me but quoting another poster.
I agree that the U.K. gov have lost all moral authority
the lies and the partying as people died, as people were kept apart from loved ones who were suffering - is repulsive
the damage done is immeasurable and now people who sacrificed for the common good feel played like fools, and are angry, rightly so,
and now the tragedy is that people no longer want to try to stop the spread
it’s all been undermined and poisoned
Boris shat in the well of the common good
and people have no appetite to listen to Covid warnings now
but still the virus gets fitter,
it doesn’t care about public opinion either way
it never did,
its just a virus

Well obviously viruses gonna virus regardless, that's essentially the point. There is a reason there have been and still are Omicron waves even in countries that have the restrictions you advocate for.

As for tragic, one of the least sad things about Partygate and the implications is that we're no longer pursuing legal restrictions that have been demonstrated not to work.

Why are the 5 in hospital if they are asymptomatic?

As for tragic, one of the least sad things about Partygate and the implications is that we're no longer pursuing legal restrictions that have been demonstrated not to work.

This and I hope we never go back. It turned people against each other and the questions about whether people should report their neighbours were sickening.

We just had family over from the US and working backwards I think it's likely that SIL caught Covid on the plane over.

Day 1 - Traveled to UK
Day 5 - Developed sore throat
Day 8 - Severe cold symptoms started
Day 13 - Tested positive for Covid (although quite possibly would've done so earlier, if she'd tested).

Airports, planes, trains and tourist attractions are all very busy this summer and hardly anyone is wearing a mask. There are thousands of people from all over the world flying in and out and mixing freely without any SD measures, so it's really not surprising that Covid is rife, particularly as the current strains are highly infectious. Given my SIL's experience, I honestly think that anyone who is traveling this summer should be prepared to catch Covid. Our DS now has symptoms and almost certainly has it too.

I've read this thread with interest as I know exactly where you are located - we have friends there and I recognise your attitude and circumstances. So much missed out about your island - the thousands of residents who had to leave because the island closed down with no support for expatriate workers, the businesses that folded never to return, the isolation of two years, the extreme measures around prolonged quarantine - I think I recently read the government was being sued for infringement of human rights over refusing to release children from quarantine to go back to school for weeks until they tested negative,. an 18 year old female American visitor put in prison for weeks for breaking quarantine...

Our government didn't get it right. But I'd love to know who did and the draconian measures taken would not have been acceptable in a modern, interlinked, densely populated country like the UK. It's like comparing apples and pears and I'm not sure how useful it is. Certainly the 'fear factor' has been used widely throughout the world.

Now it just depends on your attitude to risk. I know some people who won't fly because of the risk; others (me) won't go on roller coasters and don't like heights. People avoid Australia because of the 'critters'. You have to weigh up your risk of severe illness (would love to see the post vax figures on this) against the benefit of seeing family. Then make your decision - no one can do that for you. My plane may fall out of the sky next time I get on it but that's a risk I'll take. Terrorism in London has never stopped me travelling there because the rewards outweighs the risk.

And finally, if it helps, I caught Covid last week for the first time; I had a mild headache and a temperature for about four hours; no cough, sniffing, sore throat etc. Thought I had heat stroke as I'd been out in the sun. Only tested because some friends we saw a couple of days before tested positive. Over it in two days. Triple vaxxed and in other times, it wouldn't have been on my radar.

I've read this thread with interest as I know exactly where you are located - we have friends there and I recognise your attitude and circumstances. So much missed out about your island - the thousands of residents who had to leave because the island closed down with no support for expatriate workers, the businesses that folded never to return, the isolation of two years, the extreme measures around prolonged quarantine - I think I recently read the government was being sued for infringement of human rights over refusing to release children from quarantine to go back to school for weeks until they tested negative,. an 18 year old female American visitor put in prison for weeks for breaking quarantine...

Yup...

I looked it up (it is clearly my other choice from Bermuda) and the human rights infringments are quite horrifying.

@Muffster it does bring up the interesting point though that most of us are used to the approach of the country in which we live it - so when you read about school children not allowed out until a negative PCR even when infection rates were 1 in 20 is as horrifying to us as the UK is to you, as reading about China is to those outside of China and New Zealand not allowing in citizens it is terrifying that it go to those measures.

The difference perhaps in the UK is that we are also disgusted about how are Government handled it that we see the flaws in everything. We are about as far from gaslit as you can possibly get

I honestly think that anyone who is traveling this summer should be prepared to catch Covid.

Yes. I caught Covid on a flight within Europe a couple of weeks ago.

But it was a risk worth taking imo

I think people still worrying about covid sound unhinged

stop bloody testing and treat it like anything else

if you’re unwell deal with your symptoms

it all sounds neurotic avoiding travel and visiting family

i had covid bad - lasted a month but it still risk getting it again because it was one month and if it spoilt another couple of week then it’d be worth it for the 100% freedom I have now

I find the attitude ‘I’m not going to do anything to protect myself or society because the government didn’t follow the rules so why should I’ like something a petulant teenager would say. It’s incomprehensible how grown adults think that way… and yet here they are saying they won’t comply with future protections because some tory posh boys (and girls) thought they were better than everyone else and disregarded the laws of land.

humanity is doomed. The sooner the better imo.

Surely it depend on what those rules would be @StinkyWizzleteets. I would wear a mask again if I had to, but I'm not going to not see my family, only leave my house one a day or be told who I can have in my own home again.

I remember the posts on here during lockdown. Yes people were scared but some of the attitudes were disgusting and I wonder if some posters look back and are ashamed. Surely no one would support being in that situation again.

New Zealand currently has masks testing and isolation protocols in place and they are still experiencing an death rate at a record level.

This variant really is that contagious.

Yep. This is why the real world evidence given for the benefit of masks in particular always relates to earlier strains, when there really was good reason to think they could help. But Omicron is a different beast, unfortunately. These things simply don't stop it running out of control once established.

I agree. I don’t wear a mask now they are not mandatory, there’s never been any reduction in case numbers or slowing of increases when they were compulsive, irrespective of what “data” is produced. Whether that is down to the wrong kind of mask, people not wearing them properly, that is the real world and the mask efficacy needs to be looked at in that context.

but despite not being that bothered about Covid any more it did feel wrong to go out knowing I had it so I isolated, stayed away from vulnerable people, tested until I was clear, etc. Most people I know are doing the same. So I really don’t think most people are just thinking “fuck it” but managing the situation in a sensible way. Ultimately regardless of how infectious it is, the impacts of it, long Covid or anything else it’s here to stay, virus gonna virus and people gonna people and it is what it is.

*New Zealand currently has masks testing and isolation protocols in place and they are still experiencing an death rate at a record level.

This variant really is that contagious*

Yes, it would be very costly to try to reduce transmission of such a contagious virus.

We live in UK, in a quiet rural area, and did not catch Covid until the first week of this month when we visited family in an area where infections were and are higher than in ours. Most uncomfortable 5 hour drive to get home. We've both been quite poorly and are not yet testing negative. Up to you, but if you catch it on your outward journey your holiday won't be much fun.

The assessment is based upon observation and reading the comments made in this and other threads on similar topics. In what way is it verging upon petulant teenager territory?

I could have gone back and quoted verbatim whomever said it but paraphrasing took less time. If that makes it petulant teen territory then I’m happy to reside there. If the alternative is the ignorance of some of the posters here then petulance is where I’m happy being placed.

If it was me @StinkyWizzleteets it was in response to the OP thinking that as a country we had been gaslit by the Government because Partygate had meant that the majority had lost faith in Government messaging.

That isnt the same as saying

‘I’m not going to do anything to protect myself or society because the government didn’t follow the rules so why should I’

Because I think we are very much in the realm in this country of taking personal responsibility and deciding our own level of risk